From Exams to Expertise- Building a Career in Power Platform with Nathalie Leenders [MVP/MCT]

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Hello all to another edition of the M365 FM podcast.

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Today my guest is Natalie Landers from Netherlands.

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She is an MVP and MCT and blogger in at Skeetode's Leakering.

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Yeah, and our topic today is from exams to experience,

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build a career in power platform.

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So not only welcome to the show,

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can you introduce yourself to the audience?

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Sure, I can do that. Thank you so much for the intro.

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So as you mentioned, my name is Natalie Landers.

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I've been in IT now for about 15 years.

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I have quite a lot of experience trying to get excited about Microsoft exams,

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then doing the Microsoft exams, seeing that it value.

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And I think I currently hold like 20 active certificates.

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So there's quite a lot of exam experience there.

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But other than that, as you mentioned,

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I'm quite often at events talking about some technical things on my blog.

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I speak about or I write about some challenges that I see working for clients,

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not working with clients.

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Those aren't issues, but it's more on the technical issues that I face

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in a try and share tips and tricks there.

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So that's a little bit of me who I am.

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And you can also find me on the community calls posting the badgers gift

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whenever somebody mentions the word badge.

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It's kind of a running joke in the community whenever somebody posts

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or mentions the word badge or celebrates that they've achieved a certificate

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or an exam we post badgers gift.

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So that's kind of what I've been known for as the badger.

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So if somebody is going to look me up,

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they will undoubtedly see the badger somewhere.

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Yeah.

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I'm really happy to be here.

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Awesome.

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So can you a little bit tell your story?

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How did you came to Microsoft, especially with Power Platform?

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What was your, yeah, I was your way to Power Platform?

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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So originally, when I first started in IT, there wasn't really a Power Platform.

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So there was Power BI, there was SharePoints,

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but I think the Power Platform existed maybe five years after that.

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So originally speaking, I started out using SharePoint Designer,

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creating info-power forums, workflows.

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I did Power BI dashboard.

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And I started at the basics like, how does an IF statement work?

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How does the switch statement work?

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What's the logic behind it?

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And I grew from there.

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I had a really patient manager that helped me out in actually learning

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how workflow works in different steps.

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And from there on, from InfoParf, the logical successor was Power Apps.

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So then when a position was opened at that company to go onto the automation team, I applied

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saying like, hey, I don't know if I'm a good fit, but I have SharePoint Designer, Experience,

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I've InfoParf, Experience, I've built some workflows.

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What does work out?

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And it did.

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They hired me.

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And I had to learn on the job in my very first week.

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I had to learn straight away how a campus app worked because I had to develop one for

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a team.

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And I just dove in at first, looking at videos from Shane Young, starting out there.

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And now I consider Shane to be a really good friend of mine.

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So that's also very nice.

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And it just really grew from there.

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But I would say the way that I started doing it.

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So I dove into in-a-day workshops.

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So whenever somebody is a Microsoft partner and they help you out by demonstrating how

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an app works in a day or a dashboard in a day or an agent in a day, it's all in a day.

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And from there, you just follow examples, you follow exercises.

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But you don't really learn the in-depth for your own use case.

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So then I started looking into other tutorials, other videos because I'm a very visual learner.

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For me, a blog post explaining something, which is quite ironic because I'm a blogger.

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But it's, I myself learned in a very visual way.

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So I looked at all of the videos.

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But I really had to learn on the job.

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And as a challenge, I challenged myself to start out with learning.

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Which I don't recommend anybody do is by starting out with PL400 Power Platform Developer.

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Which if you know, it's the most difficult power platform exam out there, in my opinion.

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So it's not a very orthodox way that I started out.

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I didn't follow the fundamentals first, associate later, PATH.

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Because when I worked at that company, somebody there was also working there and he challenged,

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he inadvertently challenged me, while not meaning to challenge me, but he told me PL400 is too difficult for you.

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What he meant was PL400 is too difficult for the scope of what our company is working with.

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At least that's what he told me.

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But I took it as a, it's too difficult for you.

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So I took it as a challenge and I studied, I studied for four months and I got it.

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But yeah, so it's the most difficult technical.

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It has JavaScript, it has plugins, it has all of these extending capabilities.

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But not necessarily what is a gallery, how does it work?

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It goes way deeper than that.

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So that's kind of in a nutshell, the PATH that I started with.

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And kind of gradually along the years, how it grew for me.

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I don't know, how did you start with your career?

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Oh, I started, I came classically from e-commerce and marketing.

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And then I have started seeing, there was no solution in the data world that for marketing

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on e-commerce that matched my criteria for built something and then I have started

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to build my own platform for the company I worked, I built a platform that matched the

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criteria we need.

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So this was really my, my, my starch.

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So I have, yeah, I think I grow going in also a lot of learning by doing.

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Yeah, this was, this was my way.

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But I think many people struggle to find their right direction in the case.

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How did you discover your passion?

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And so, so I didn't actually discover it myself.

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So originally, speaking or originally I started out as a ITIL service management expert.

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I did change management, escalation management, authorization management, a whole different

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area than I went on to support IT support.

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So it wasn't traditionally speaking that I was like, okay, I need to do power platform,

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but it sort of grew by demand.

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The company that I was working for had a had had had an ask for a very specific business

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use case and they could, they could use me for that and they asked me and I was like, okay,

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I'm open to learning.

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I think that's been the biggest, the biggest takeaway that I can give to people is be curious

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because IT is constantly changing.

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I got asked last week like, hey, how do you see yourself in three years?

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I don't know.

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Everything changes so fast.

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It's not so I can, I can, I can think about what I would like to be doing in the next

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three years, five years, ten years, but if you would have told me three years ago, I would

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be doing what I'm doing right now.

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I mean, I'm now in power platform for about four or four or five years, but the in depth

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that I'm doing right now is a consultant.

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I never would have guessed or dreamed that I would be doing that.

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So it's such a difficult question on how, how do you be who, both who you want to be

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and who a company is looking for you to become and is still a good fit with everything that's

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changing?

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It's kind of a double, double edge sword of what you're looking for, what the demand is

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and what is actually going to be useful to learn.

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What did you think when you, when we talk about learning, how important is this community?

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I see especially Netherlands, you have this wonderful women in tech community with Karina

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and Avie and thinker and so on.

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So, so thank you.

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It's, it's important to have the community, community alone.

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Definitely.

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So as you mentioned, that's the, that's the Dutch, Dutch women in tech community.

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I'm also a group leader for the local ladies, which is, which is out systems, mandates and

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power platform.

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And it's so important to be able to visit events and talk to other people and and be able

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to ask like, hey, I'm, I'm trying to do this in an app.

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I'm trying to approach it in this, in this way, how would you do it?

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For, for example, I just had a call with somebody at work where I was like, I'm trying to

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accomplish something.

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I'm stuck.

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How would you do it?

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Maybe somebody, somebody thinks about it in a completely different way.

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They have a more or less and and analytical approach to something and it could mean that,

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for example, I could learn something that is in a video from Shane Young, but if I, if I'm

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at an event and somebody were to say like, hey, yeah, that works, but you can also try

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this, this and that.

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And that's the biggest, most important thing for me with the community outside of the

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friendship outside of everything else that's there.

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It's the amount of knowledge that's out there and everybody is so willing to share nobody's

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gatekeeping, nobody is saying, hire me and I will do it for you.

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Everybody's just really open and like, yeah, try this.

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Yeah.

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I also have this Marcel Brochk, a live stream, the M65 show and he do his power platform.

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And I have also another, another, Angel Departee for the NNX and the brilliant Alinzoi for

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AI or Copilot.

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We see that there is, as we start, I think, it's really hard to get speakers and so on,

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but yeah, we see that the community is really willing to share and it's also, yeah, I think

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it's, they do it for free.

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And I think that's really interesting, economic.

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That's something I had done for, I don't know, three years.

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I have the, as are certifications and the data certifications.

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I had, oh, it's worse, in company, they took, I think, six and a half thousand euro for

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three courses.

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And yeah, I only get thousand, three thousand answer cards and every day I show the loan

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to 20 cards.

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So that was, was what my, what the training was, I think, okay, that's over 2000 euro for

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training to, yeah, to learn answer cards.

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I was, I was really unhappy with this.

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But before we deep dive more in the solidification and exam topic, we have this community topic.

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What advice would you give someone who's starting, or will starting with power plants for

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today?

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I would, so at the beginning, it may be really scary.

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Like, hey, do I belong at any event?

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Well, somebody think I'm not knowledgeable enough.

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There can be a lot of insecurities, but I would also say it's completely not necessary.

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But if you're, if you're scared for the first time, try an online community call.

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You can just, you can just be there.

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You can put something in a chat or not.

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You can just say, hi, it's, it's all fine.

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But just being there, you, you, you will be able to see the interaction, how people respond

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to each other, the topics that are being mentioned.

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And then maybe from there, you can move on to an in person event, a user group event, where

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everybody's just really nice.

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So it's nobody there will say, oh, your beginner, you don't belong here.

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Nobody will ever say that to you.

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That is really, really welcoming the very first time I did a user group.

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I just started, I think it was in my third month.

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And I had just started doing a team's adaptive card thing for work.

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And, and back then they were, they were quite new.

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And there was somebody there at the event, there was like, hey, I'm really interested in

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team's adaptive cards.

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And I was there for the first time and I was like, well, wait a minute, I just worked with

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them, what, what, what, what would you like to know?

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And that actually grew into a month later me doing a talk at that user group, but that's

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a whole different step from just, just attending.

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But everybody was just so nice and welcoming.

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And that's the biggest thing that I would like to tell people is just, just go there and

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have fun, enjoy yourself.

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And if you don't talk to anybody, that's fine.

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If you, if, if you sit in a corner, you listen to, to the topic, you get a train, you go

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home, that's fine as well.

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You don't have to interact with people, but they are there and they are really nice, really

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nice people.

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When we, we have, yeah, we have the badger guys.

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And what, what think you about, the certification, still a measure in here, 2000, 36 or is it, yeah,

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how, what, what, what do you think about the certification?

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Yeah, so there's people that take certificates just to get a certificate, just to get a title.

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And there's people that take a certificate because they want to learn something.

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So it's not necessarily having a certificate is a specific way, but it's kind of how does

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that person approach doing it?

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For example, I'm certified in fabric.

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I don't really work with fabric.

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I took it as a challenge.

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But then whenever somebody approaches me like, hey, you're certified in fabric, can I hire

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you to be a fabric consultant?

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I will, I will honestly tell them like, hey, I took it as a challenge.

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I don't, I don't work in the area.

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But there are people that got their certificates as sort of like trophies like, hey, I have all

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of this.

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I am, I am dead skilled, but having a certificate itself doesn't mean that you're, that you're

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100% skilled in that topic.

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It just means that you took the exam.

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But the way that I approach it is I take an exam to learn.

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So when I'm learning for an exam, for example, I learned about fabric.

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I really dove into I went with my colleagues at Wartel Smart.

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I went over to them like, hey, you guys work with fabric.

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Tell me what do you do?

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Whenever I'm learning something in a blog post or I see something on Microsoft Learn or on

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official learn path, what does this mean?

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How do you actually do this for clients?

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So I really dove deep into actually learning and expanding my knowledge on that.

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And I would say that's another approach that I would recommend to people is if you, if you're

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interested about an exam and you're passionate about it, try and learn as much as you can

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about about the topic.

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Don't just learn the learning path.

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Take the exam and hope you and hope you get it.

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So that's that's the way that I do it.

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I mean, I and yes, I have a lot.

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It may seem that I'm trying to catch them all.

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It's not necessarily that.

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It's me.

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I'm genuinely interested in learning about all of those subjects.

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I'm generally interested in Azure data, generally interested in fabric and power platform

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and all of those things because then I can talk to people and somebody would be a fabric

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expert and they would be mentioning something like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah.

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I that's that's that's this and that and maybe that maybe that works with somebody

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that I'm working on.

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So I'm able to talk to other people a little bit broader.

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And I'll tell you just my regular power platform area, but of course, I did start with power

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platform.

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I did start doing all doing all of them.

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But then I was like, okay, that's it.

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Now what?

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I think of immediately, I think it's really interesting because I see we have a lot of people

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that specialize in one or two or three tools.

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And I will say Microsoft is more and yeah, it's more an ecosystem.

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And I think there are not people that overview all the options you have.

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It's often nothing to people doing for this one solution.

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I don't know.

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They're doing the best they can, but I think sometimes, yeah, it's the people need more

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overview.

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I think that's also an important topic.

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But I will stay a little bit at the certificate topic over with deep dive in platform and

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in the other topics.

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So what, I can tell you what was my, what is the biggest mistake people make when preparing

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for Microsoft certification?

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I would say the biggest mistake people do is look at a practice exam, assume that's the

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exam, learn from that, memorize the answers, take the exam, maybe pass it and that's it.

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So you don't really learn anything from that.

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And me, this is me speaking as a Microsoft certified trainer as well.

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There's no added benefit in just learning question and an answer and that's it.

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There's no false process, no reasoning behind it like, hey, why would somebody do that's

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very specific thing?

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But that's for me the biggest mistake.

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I mean, in the past, maybe, maybe now still, if you, if you have a really good practice

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exam or you paid for a practice exam and you passed exam, but then, then you really have

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to learn on the job because then your employer will be like, hey, you passed this exam, you

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are not knowledgeable, go fix this thing.

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And then you're like, well, I don't know how to do that.

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So that's the biggest mistake that I tell people not to do.

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Yeah, my biggest mistake was I had not got prepared for the person view, uh, yeah, check

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out.

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So I couldn't cut my camera off and then I need another camera.

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Then they say, oh, you're, you're next to dark.

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You must put all those stuff away.

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So I have lost, I think, 20 minutes from the exam.

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Then I was really stressed in the mood.

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Yeah, I think everybody says, yeah, to prepare, I say, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the downside

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of doing at home, at home exam.

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So I, I always choose to go to an exam center because, because I also work at home quite a

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lot.

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I'm currently in my attic, but it's, uh, I don't associate my home with exams as well.

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So I, so, so, so I choose, I choose to drive over an hour to an hour.

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And then I go to an exam center and whenever I'm there, they're like, hey, you're back,

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have some coffee, uh, start exam when you're ready and it's just a nice laid back environment.

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I can do the exam.

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I can drive back home and I, and there's no, there's no struggle with different cameras.

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There's, there's no struggle with trying to find the safe space because I don't know, uh,

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this, uh, this audio recording won't have video, but I have a lot of nicknacks around

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me, the amount of stuff that I would have to clean in order to be able to qualify for an

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at home exam that alone, but will, will, will be at least the hour that it takes me to drive

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to an, to an exam center.

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And when we look a little bit at the learning, uh, what, what's your experience?

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Should I learn like, I don't know, by these answers or should I run through Microsoft

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learn or, or it's also sort of, are you practice, build something, what, what's your way to learn

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or, I think my way, it may be a little bit extensive, but I do all of those things.

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I start out with a learn path.

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I follow the Microsoft learn, do the practice exams, uh, that are on learn, the practice questions

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there.

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Um, if there is a question that I'm unsure of or a subject that is, that, that, that, that,

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I'm unsure of, I try and look at other sources, not just learn maybe a, a video, maybe

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somebody wrote a blog post about it, I try and learn there.

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And if I can, I go to a developer environment or a work environment and I try and test out

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the things that I'm learning about.

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So it's going from just the, I cannot talk fear radically, reading, reading about something

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to actually doing it because when you're doing it, you, you may experience something like,

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hey, it doesn't work like that.

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Maybe I can ask somebody and then you learn from, from that.

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So I tend to, I've had first in everything on that subject, both theoretical, practical,

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talking to colleagues, try and get us much knowledge because sometimes a learn path from

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Microsoft and I mean this, prospectively, it won't have all of the information that you

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need to actually pass the exam.

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It may give you an estimate, but it will never give you a full 100% of everything you need

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to pass the exam because you do need to have actual experience in working with the, with

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the, with the products and that's actual knowledge about it.

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So that's, so that's kind of how I, how I approach this, but I don't know about you.

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Yeah, I think it makes, makes sense.

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I think a little bit, I think, I don't know if all was a Microsoft learn I need for, for,

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for the, for the test.

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So it's, yeah, I've done these, learning these damn questions and, yeah, we're, so I think

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it's, yeah.

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I think to, yeah, to pass the test, it's, it's enough, I think, because you're a lot really

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neat.

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You can, yeah.

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And I think something, some questions are also like, okay, this must be the right answer

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because the other makes up a loop, but no sense.

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I think, yeah, it's, yeah, I think best is, is have experience.

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I think it's, it's really hard, especially all tech stuff.

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I've them also cyber security certificates, they have no, no work really worked on it, but

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I, yeah, I, I've done this and, yeah, this was much harder, I think, because, yeah, I only

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have work on Azure security, but never on, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, and Google.

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And so I have, yeah, to say, okay, it could be.

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This or this in, in RBS, it's made, it's made, it makes sense.

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So I have passive, but yeah, I think it, it's, it's hard.

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I think, yeah, especially in tech, without, have the feeling and understand the technology

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behind it.

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And then, yeah, it's, it's hard.

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But when we think, we have these, we have different roles in the company.

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Is there a different path or a certification path?

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So you will give, I don't know, to begin as developers, consultants, admins.

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Yeah, so fun, lean off, I, I actually launched a video series on that.

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This, this past few weeks on what I recommend people do, but let's say for power platforms

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specifically, whenever you're starting out and you're interested in, in something I would

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say, to go the traditional route, start with fundamentals first, and then grow from

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there and see, hey, I've learned in fundamentals, I learned that there's a plugin.

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I'm interested in learning about plugins, which exam do I then need to take or learn for,

359
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which is PO 400 in, in this instance.

360
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,760
But if you're, but if you're interested in going a little bit more towards the agent route,

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one of the new betas, that's how out AB620 is whole copiled studio agent, all of that, all

362
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of those things.

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00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:47,720
It's kind of, you can of course follow the take, take all of the exams and end with your

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00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,840
expert, and that's it.

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But I would go more towards where your interest is, start, start at the beginning, or maybe

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even start at one of the other ones.

367
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But start with the ones that you're passionate about in learning, whether that's speaking

368
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of a power platform, whether that's copiled studio, whether that's going more technical,

369
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:20,520
whether that's going to architect route, it all really, I would just do that.

370
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,040
So it's whether you're developed or consultant, whether you're just starting out, whether

371
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you're a business person looking into power platform, start at the beginning and go

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from there.

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00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:40,600
And you say the 400 was the hardest certificate is also the, yeah, important or the most important

374
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,920
or this is the biggest impact on your career.

375
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,720
Well, it is the biggest scope exam that's out there.

376
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So P-400 is a really, really broad exam.

377
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,320
And they have now started expanding a little bit more into applied skills as well, but

378
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P-400 is massive.

379
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,840
A model driven app, but extending model driven apps using JavaScript, using plugins, writing

380
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:17,600
code, using PCF components, going way beyond just what you might need in your job to build

381
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an app.

382
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,120
So what's in P-400?

383
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,400
Maybe I'll just go for your entire career.

384
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,840
It really depends on what you're looking for.

385
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:34,160
So that exam in particular, I started with it, which was interesting, but after that I've

386
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:39,540
only had to use that what I learned from there once for a client.

387
00:28:39,540 --> 00:28:45,480
So it's the biggest one that's out there right now.

388
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,720
I mean, they deprecated P-100, power platform app maker.

389
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:56,120
They changed that into two applied skills. They are going to deprecating P-200, power platform

390
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app maker.

391
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And there's a new exam that's going to be coming out pretty soon.

392
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:07,800
I cannot officially say when or what it is, but check out the socials pretty soon when

393
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,200
I'm going to be posting about it.

394
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,880
But that one is more towards also app building, but also AI.

395
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:23,760
So a little bit of sneak peek on what's coming, but everything is changing so much.

396
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,840
Microsoft is changing the exams as well.

397
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:35,920
I mean, in the beginning it was YouTube P-900, you'd 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, then you're

398
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done.

399
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:45,280
But now with all of the exams that are reaching through the different subjects, for

400
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,240
example, if you now learn about agents, you also need to learn about foundry.

401
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,360
If you learn about foundry, you may need to learn about fabric.

402
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,280
If you're in fabric, you may need to learn about a power app interaction or whatever.

403
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:02,360
So it's not as linear as it used to be.

404
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:10,080
So it's really difficult to say when somebody's a developer, somebody starts out as a consultant

405
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:15,080
to do this specific thing because it really depends on what the use case or what your companies

406
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,560
looking for, what you are looking for.

407
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,240
It's difficult.

408
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:26,520
Yeah, you are an MVP, so that is for your community work, I say.

409
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,040
And you are also MCT.

410
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:34,200
Can you tell a little bit about the way to get MCT and what it is for?

411
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,200
Sure.

412
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,200
So it actually very recently changed on how to become an MCT.

413
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,080
I don't know if it's officially out there yet, so I don't want to speak out of my

414
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:52,640
DNA, but the way that I got it was I did a train, the trainer training, trying to say that

415
00:30:52,640 --> 00:31:00,880
10 times fast, but I followed a total, I think it was a four day course from somebody that

416
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,760
isn't, that was an official MCT trainer for MCTs.

417
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:13,880
And she really taught me the, I don't know the English word for it, the tactical approach

418
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,040
to learning how to teach others.

419
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:26,240
Yes, the big difference is do you just give information or do you teach something?

420
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,480
That was the biggest takeaway for me at a training.

421
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:35,560
I mean, I can give you 10 facts about a product, but will you learn something about those

422
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:36,560
10 facts?

423
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:37,640
Probably not.

424
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,920
And that's the difference on what I learned there.

425
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,920
So at the end of those days, I had to do an exam.

426
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,520
So the very, very first day you do a practice lesson.

427
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:55,800
So I did it the way that I learned how to do it.

428
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,520
I just did a session, but I was, I was submitting information.

429
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,920
I was just, I was just giving information for 10 minutes and that was it.

430
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,240
It's, which is fine, but it's not teaching the subject.

431
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,360
So at the end of the training, I had to do the same lesson, but then with everything

432
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,680
that I had learned in those four training days.

433
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,720
And I did it completely, completely different.

434
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:25,760
And at the end result of that, I got a certificate of completion, which is behind me.

435
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:32,560
And then from there, I was eligible to be enrolled as an MCT and an MCT, meaning Microsoft

436
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,120
certified trainer.

437
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:41,120
I'm officially certified to give out exam trainings in exams that I myself have the certificate

438
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,120
for.

439
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,120
Ah, okay.

440
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:44,600
This is one of my next questions.

441
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,720
It's like, it's not like an NDP.

442
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:53,520
You make a certificate for like power platform or I don't know data or so on business apps.

443
00:32:53,520 --> 00:33:02,200
It's really then what you have made the courses you may, you have passed this, you can teach.

444
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,200
Okay.

445
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,760
Yeah, that's the, that's the official approach.

446
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:11,000
So it's kind of that you're knowledgeable enough to be able to both.

447
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:18,280
So you have to follow the Microsoft learn material, the learning material, not learn material.

448
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:23,920
But you have to follow very specific PowerPoints that are created by Microsoft, but, but you can

449
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:30,040
also give your own experience and your own feedback and additional questions, additional

450
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,040
scenarios.

451
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:37,320
So that's the really big added benefit of having an MCT perform an exam training is you can

452
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:43,520
learn from their experience while, while they're explaining what they're explaining.

453
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,640
Let's say, let's say I'm, I as an MCT, I'm giving a PO400 training.

454
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,000
I have to learn or teach somebody about plugins.

455
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,880
I can, I can give information, what's on the slide about plugins or I can tell you that

456
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,040
I worked for a client that at this and this business scenario, I build a plugin based

457
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,520
on that data that did a certain thing.

458
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:12,520
So that's the very different approach for as being an MCT and giving those exam trainings.

459
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:18,600
And the MVP, it's, I think, so yeah, you have invest time to work.

460
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:23,680
So about, but I think it's, it's free off of any charge.

461
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:28,200
The MCT that the costs are true to be an MCT.

462
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:34,320
So there are costs there, well, there, there weren't, well, originally speaking, there were

463
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:43,040
costs, but during COVID, they waived the costs, but now to still become an MCT every single

464
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:48,120
year, the end of the year, you have to enroll again to become an MCT.

465
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,160
It is, I think it's in December now.

466
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:56,600
So whenever I do a training, it's uploaded in the specific system through that system,

467
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:03,320
my trainees have to fill out a survey, proving that I provided a training, have a specific

468
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,680
standard, have specific quality.

469
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:12,440
And then based on the feedback from my trainees, I am able to enroll again as an MCT.

470
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:18,160
And that enrollment process costs money, which in my case, I do the trainings for my employer.

471
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,640
So my employer pays for me to enroll as an MCT.

472
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:23,640
Okay.

473
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:29,000
But, but there are people that work as individual contractors, as trainers and they have

474
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:36,000
to then pay for that themselves or for clients or it really depends on the situation.

475
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,760
Yeah, it's interesting.

476
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:44,560
There are also, I think, other Microsoft certificates like, I don't know, wrong,

477
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:49,040
the silver gold, the T-LOM partners.

478
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:58,120
So, so those are more partners certificates, those are more from a company specific standard.

479
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:05,240
Does that company have enough employees to qualify for a specific partner status?

480
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:11,280
So that's completely different from you as an individual doing an exam.

481
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,600
And that's more, does the company have a minimum of four people that have built for 100?

482
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:17,600
Yeah, okay.

483
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,280
And that's, that's to hold together, okay.

484
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:28,040
And let's a little bit talk about Power Platform and start with the Power Platform.

485
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:36,160
When I talk to the app guys, they all nearly, I think, 95% is my feeling.

486
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,720
Yeah, they said all of us was Canvas apps.

487
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:43,120
Why did you think so many people start with Canvas apps?

488
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,680
I think because Canvas apps has a lot of freedom.

489
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,680
Model driven app is very data driven.

490
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:56,040
It's a very standard-views forms, not a lot of playing with it, learning when you start

491
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:01,680
out with Model driven apps, but a Canvas app, it's a blank slate.

492
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,240
You can add a gallery, you can add a button, you can make the button do something.

493
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,080
It's a very visual, very playful way of learning.

494
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:15,080
So as I mentioned that in a day workshop, you create a gallery that has laptops in it and

495
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,800
people can order laptops from it.

496
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:23,160
So it's a really clear way and understanding on how to build a Canvas app.

497
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:29,920
And also a Canvas app is able to connect to over all of the 1500 custom and regular connectors

498
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,320
that are out there.

499
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,800
And a Model driven app is only data-first and virtual tables, but that's a different discussion.

500
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,600
With Model driven apps, they're not that flexible.

501
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,680
They require additional licensing.

502
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,160
It may be that you work for an employer that does not have a premium license and a Canvas

503
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:55,960
app is a lot easier to start working with initially.

504
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,960
Yeah.

505
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,280
What makes a good Canvas app from a great one for you?

506
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,760
So I work a lot in Canvas apps.

507
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:14,440
But you can do an initial setup in a Canvas app, a prototype in maybe an hour, maybe less.

508
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:20,840
But in order to actually go really deep in all of the conditions, optimizing your code, whenever

509
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:26,600
you reach a specific screen, what information do you have to gather?

510
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:33,160
Building a really in-depth Canvas app can take a lot of time and effort and a lot of understanding

511
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,280
in, okay, I have a form.

512
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,000
It submits the information, now what?

513
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,120
Do I want to use it to navigate to another screen?

514
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,880
Do I want to show a specific message?

515
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,400
What do I want to do?

516
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,760
So initial app creation is easy.

517
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:52,680
Both creating an in-depth Canvas app that goes deeper than just your initial ask and maybe

518
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:58,080
see whether you have a client or your company that's looking for something specific.

519
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:03,600
You really have to dive deep into the functionality for that.

520
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:11,080
And what are common beginner mistakes in, yeah, called app design?

521
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:19,360
I don't think necessarily that there's mistakes or at least none that I can think of.

522
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,120
If you have an app, you open the app, you have a standard edit form, you have a submit button,

523
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,760
it submits the information if that's your use case.

524
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,240
It's not necessarily a mistake.

525
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:35,720
But if you have use case of a company that you add a company logo for, you add a welcome screen,

526
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:43,120
you add a, just to get your information here button, then it opens up a really fancy form,

527
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,400
not just the edit form, but maybe a really fancy form.

528
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:52,240
And then when you, whenever you submit, it shows a pop-up message, your incident or your ticket

529
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:58,520
or whatever has been created, click here to go to it or whichever it goes deeper.

530
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,720
So maybe the, yeah, I don't like the word mistake.

531
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:08,040
There's different approaches that if you build an app and it works, it's not necessarily

532
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:13,160
a mistake, but is there another added benefit to you building that app?

533
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,680
Is there anything else needed?

534
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:22,800
Well, maybe, maybe speaking of mistakes is when you start piling on data and start piling

535
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,240
on code and start piling on different screens without looking at, but does it actually

536
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:30,240
do, do I need that data?

537
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:34,320
Can I do a more clever way of working with that data?

538
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:39,760
For example, I, I wouldn't call it a mistake, but I would call it a change what I did for

539
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:40,760
a client of mine.

540
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,840
I'm building an app for them.

541
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:50,200
And that app has 70 lookups in a single form, which performance you can guess that it was

542
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,200
slow.

543
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:57,400
So what I changed was with help from a colleague who gave me the suggestion, because I

544
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,000
didn't really see an issue with it.

545
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:08,160
But when the app, we opened up very rapidly, we opened up an item, it's an item, I'll just

546
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,840
one second, wait for the siren.

547
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:17,680
So, so what happened was I opened up different items 10, 50 times and eventually the lookup

548
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,480
wasn't working anymore.

549
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:25,280
So what I did did, instead of those 70 lookups, we changed it to one lookup, to a collection,

550
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:30,840
to a local table, if somebody does know what a collection is, like a locally stored information,

551
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,560
and then grabbed the information from there and it became so fast.

552
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:43,480
So not necessarily a mistake, but a different way of working with it that enhanced the performance.

553
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:53,080
I think, yeah, we have, hype topics like co-pilot, actually, and the other is, and it's

554
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,600
a more powerful platform, so it's data worse.

555
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:05,120
What did you think about data worse or what are the misconceptions that, or misunderstandings

556
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,320
people have about data worse?

557
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:16,280
I don't know if I, if I can answer that question, I haven't really heard anybody have any misconception

558
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,400
or any different views on data first.

559
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,200
Data first is, it's a data backend.

560
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:27,680
The data backend that can be really smart and have data validation on it, smarter than,

561
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,560
for example, is SharePoint's data backend.

562
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,600
But in essence, it's just a table, a table with data.

563
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,520
So there are, of course, added things that you need to have a security role, you need to

564
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,560
have a premium license, you need to have very specific things in order to work with data

565
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,120
first.

566
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:51,840
And it doesn't work in a traditional way of, let's say, your use to working with SharePoint.

567
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:57,080
And if you go from one SharePoint to another, you do a lookup, you can specify which field

568
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,920
you want to set your relationship with.

569
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,400
Data first doesn't work in that way.

570
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:10,560
So maybe people can't make a mistake in assuming data first works, same as a different data

571
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:11,560
source.

572
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:12,560
Yeah.

573
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:18,760
I think the power platform has so many cool tools.

574
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:27,240
And yeah, I think, I use much time, I use power, I think it's not so good matching me in

575
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:28,240
this product family.

576
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:31,480
I think they should separate it to another one.

577
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,680
But yeah, then my favorite tool for me is its power automate.

578
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,680
I really love this.

579
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:43,200
And what's your favorite automation you ever built?

580
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:49,120
So my very favorite one is for a previous employer that I worked for.

581
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:56,480
I cannot go very much into details, but then a very specific item has been created.

582
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,160
So an item has been created in data first.

583
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,720
That then goes into a word template.

584
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:06,280
From that word template, it gets very specific security on it.

585
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,280
It gets converted to PDF.

586
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,520
It gets uploaded to a specific system.

587
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,600
It gets sent to for review, for approval.

588
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:22,280
So it's a very big, very multi-step, multi-layered power automate flow that I created.

589
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:28,320
And it's really a shame that I cannot talk in full use case what it actually was about.

590
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:33,720
But that's the most interesting one that I've built so far and the most difficult one

591
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:36,960
that wants to be month to build.

592
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:42,200
When we look a little bit in the future, or what's we look in the future?

593
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:51,520
But how do you see AI, co-pilot, how did it change development in the power platform?

594
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:58,120
So co-pilot, it's not yet in, for example, in Power Apps.

595
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,200
But in Power Automate, there are now suggestions for your code.

596
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:08,520
If you insert a specific code, it can suggest what code to use.

597
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,120
But for me, I don't really use co-pilot a lot.

598
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:13,680
I use GitHub co-pilot.

599
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:19,040
It's kind of maybe swearing against Microsoft people that are listening to this podcast.

600
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,000
But I use GitHub co-pilot quite a lot.

601
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,720
I do see co-pilot moving further into when you're developing on the power platform.

602
00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:32,160
It's going to add a lot more benefit in the future with upcoming features that I cannot

603
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:33,160
talk about.

604
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:38,800
But for now, I only work with GitHub co-pilot when I'm developing.

605
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,720
For example, I'm looking for a specific expression.

606
00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:47,640
I will tell that co-pilot, like, hey, I'm working in Power Automate.

607
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,680
I need a specific thing.

608
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,000
This is my data source.

609
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,160
This is what I'm looking for.

610
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,760
Can you help me with the expression?

611
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,320
So that's the way that I use it right now.

612
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:05,760
The co-pilot in general, the Microsoft co-pilot is now in Power Automate, but it's in the

613
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,440
new designer.

614
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:14,360
And I personally don't really use the new designer yet, because there are some things that aren't

615
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,720
working yet that I need.

616
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:24,080
But for somebody that's looking for co-pilot assistance, for example, Power Automates,

617
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:30,680
go to the new designer, which can be approached by make.powerautomate.com, not make.powerapps.com.

618
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,520
If you go through the powerapps, you will go into the old designer.

619
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,720
But if you go to powerautomate.com, it will give you the new designer and co-pilot in it

620
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:39,720
as well.

621
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:45,320
If it's been enabled for your organization, of course.

622
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:46,320
OK.

623
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:52,600
I have also, I have a little bit looked in profiles from other developers and groups.

624
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,680
And I have, yeah, I have, yeah, still some quotes.

625
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,680
And I will give you the quote and, yeah, you get the reaction to it.

626
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:12,080
The third one is, "Satisfications get you, the interview, experience gets you the job."

627
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:18,680
It may give you a little bit more leeway into being noticed by a company.

628
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:19,680
Yes.

629
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:25,800
So it doesn't necessarily mean you have that skill as we, as we talked about, but it does show

630
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:33,520
that you have an interest in learning about that topic and they are aware that your knowledge,

631
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,040
at least somewhat knowledgeable about that subject.

632
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,040
So I kind of agree.

633
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,040
OK.

634
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,120
Then I find this, you find it funny.

635
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:48,320
Low-court means low skills and low-court means low skills.

636
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,520
No, I don't agree.

637
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,520
Low-code.

638
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,280
So I am a low-code person.

639
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,040
I'm not a pro coder, but that doesn't mean I'm not skilled.

640
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:04,200
So for example, in order to work with low-code, you still need to know that if you have a button

641
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,520
in the Canvas app, to use the navigate function to go to a screen.

642
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,520
In order to get information from something, you still have to work with a collection and

643
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,800
learn the logic behind the collection.

644
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:20,080
You just don't have to write 15 or 20 lines of code to get that collection.

645
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,360
But it's a very different approach.

646
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,040
I mean, pro-code versus low-code.

647
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,560
Low-code is code.

648
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,360
Yes, it's low-code, but it's still code.

649
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:34,680
You still have to learn the skills to work with the code.

650
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,800
It's just a lot more approachable than going from zero to learning pro-code.

651
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:44,400
If you go from zero to low-code to pro-code, it's a lot better and manageable.

652
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:51,400
And then the next part of the best developers are these ones who understand business problems.

653
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,920
Yes and no.

654
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:03,200
There's both the developers can be really technical people, that they are really skilled in building

655
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,400
apps and building flows.

656
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:11,280
But if you're a developer that works alongside business decision makers, that you're aware

657
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,240
of business processes, you may think of

658
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:21,520
a way or scenario in an app that a full-on technical person wouldn't necessarily think about.

659
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:27,760
But you can tell them to develop that and explain why they can develop it.

660
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:33,120
So there's no right or wrong whenever somebody is a really technical person that's developing

661
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:39,520
or whenever somebody has a more business approach to developing.

662
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:44,520
And then the next one is you learn more from failed projects than from successful ones.

663
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,440
Unfortunately, yes.

664
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,440
You do learn a lot from failure.

665
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:55,360
I have failed quite a lot of times creating something, but whenever I have that specific

666
00:49:55,360 --> 00:50:00,640
use case for a different client, I will approach it differently.

667
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,960
But that's all part of being human.

668
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:10,120
We all learn from our mistakes and we all learn from things that work, things that don't

669
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:11,520
work.

670
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,800
So, you know.

671
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:21,280
People spend too much time to study and lot enough time to building.

672
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,280
I don't know.

673
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:23,280
I don't know.

674
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,080
There are many, many different approaches.

675
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,520
I mean, I study a lot, but I work a lot as well.

676
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,160
I develop a lot, but I learn a lot.

677
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:40,400
And then, I think it's what for a kind of people, how do you learn?

678
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:41,760
It's different learning types.

679
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:47,040
So I think, yeah, someone is watching the video of Yanzo's reading, Yanzo's listening,

680
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:53,360
Yanzo is learning by doing.

681
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,720
And I have some quick answer around.

682
00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:03,960
And the first question here is, the most underrated power platform feature.

683
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,720
Feature or product?

684
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:11,280
No, not safety, not my product.

685
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,960
Products.

686
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,960
Power Automate Desktop.

687
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,720
So Power Automate Desktop is a really, really powerful tool.

688
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:26,440
And now, with computer use in corporate studio, it's mimicking a lot of the features.

689
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,840
There's a lot you can do in Power Automate Desktop.

690
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,280
You're able to get information from legacy flows, or legacy applications.

691
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:38,080
You're able to push information out to the cloud.

692
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:44,480
And I don't think a lot of people, they tend to avoid it because I think RPA is kind of scary.

693
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,360
And you really have to dive into how it's how it works.

694
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:52,760
But I think that's one of the most underrated products or features that's out there.

695
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,560
Yeah.

696
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:57,560
And when you see, you are conserved.

697
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,520
What is the most important skill for you?

698
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,880
You have to be a conserved.

699
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:10,240
So I think being able to look at a bigger picture and not just power platform.

700
00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:15,520
So me as a power platform consultant, I am also working with Power BI service.

701
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:16,520
I'm working with Fabric.

702
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,960
I'm working with a top desk API integration.

703
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,800
It's not necessarily that I'm just doing power platform.

704
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:30,360
So as a consultant, whenever a company or a client asks you a question, you cannot just

705
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,160
say, I only know Power Platform.

706
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,520
I will find out the answer for you.

707
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,640
I mean, it's an okay answer.

708
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:42,760
But if it's on something broader, that's all reason why I learned Fabric is so that I can

709
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,680
also consult on other technologies as well.

710
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:51,520
So not just knowing Power Platform, but knowing Azure, knowing Power BI, knowing Fabric,

711
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:58,880
knowing Deeper, learning Foundry, consultant really has to look at the bigger picture instead

712
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,480
of just that very specific product.

713
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,800
MVP or MCT, which change your career more?

714
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,720
Would say MVP, big time.

715
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:19,440
My MVP journey, it's, for me, it was all about embracing the community and friendships

716
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:25,840
and going to events and just having fun and me being an MVP.

717
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,880
I'm now at events that talking to even more people and people approach me in their like,

718
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,400
hey, I follow you online.

719
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,400
Can you help me with this use case?

720
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:43,360
For me, that has been the biggest career changer in, because MCT is great.

721
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:48,120
I'm able to give exam trainings, but I don't really get approached online like, hey, I'm

722
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,680
studying for TL600, can you help me?

723
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:56,080
But being an MVP in Biceps, in particular Power Apps and Power Automate, people really approach

724
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,000
me like, hey, I have a Power Automate use case, can you help me?

725
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,760
Or I'm at an event and they're like, hey, I have read your blog post, it really helped

726
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:03,760
me a lot.

727
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:04,760
Thank you so much.

728
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,760
So MVP, definitely.

729
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:18,080
Yes, MVP also can give, I think, advice or you can say, yeah, future, you know,

730
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:25,560
you will have or something, you can, you can, they talk to you, you have this direct PM contacts.

731
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:32,640
So a feature you wish Microsoft should add tomorrow.

732
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:40,960
Tomorrow, there are so many.

733
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:49,800
So pilot in Power Apps, like code, code assistance in Power Apps, yeah, I would say that one.

734
00:54:49,800 --> 00:55:01,200
Okay, so as we were running out of time, so what is your final advice for anyone who build

735
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,040
a career in Microsoft technologies?

736
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:11,640
They stay curious, be open to learning because the Microsoft ecosystem is changing every single

737
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:12,640
day.

738
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:18,000
So you may be interested in a very specific product now, but that may change in a week.

739
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:25,840
So stay open, curious and if you're passionate about something, follow that passion.

740
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:34,880
Awesome, yeah, then I say, thank you so much for spending this really power with me.

741
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:40,880
It was really interesting and thank you for your perspective on all these topics.

742
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:42,480
So yeah, thank you.

743
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:47,640
So the last words I think it's for you to the audience, the last thing I can say is all

744
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:52,520
your links and contact data are in the show notes.

745
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:59,160
So yeah, the people can check out there and the last word sweet.

746
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,680
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

747
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:07,920
I am always very happy to be sharing the passion about exams and passion about the community

748
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:09,600
and being an MVP.

749
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:15,120
So if there is ever somebody that's listening here and is interested about a specific topic,

750
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,120
feel free to reach out to me.

751
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:25,840
But yeah, thank you so much for having me and I'm looking forward to hearing this online.

752
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:32,840
Yeah, and I think also we see you on the Amcifix T5 show in the next day.

753
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,840
Yes, I'll be back.

754
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,640
Okay, then thank you so much and have a great day.

755
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:39,640
Bye.

756
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:40,640
Thank you, thank you.

757
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:40,640
Bye.

758
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:42,640
Bye.

759
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:44,640
you