The Future of Power Apps: AI, Vibe Coding & Faster App Development with Keith Atherton [MVP/MCT]

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Yeah, where I come to another edition of the M65 at M podcast my guest today is at

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Kiss Errinton and yeah, I have to write it a little bit down what you're, what are you all

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do?

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He is the power platform a solution architect, Microsoft MVP for business applications,

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certificate to Microsoft trainer, 11, uh, certificate professionals.

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So I think that's the link the Microsoft certifications linked in learning instructor public speaker

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found also power platform community high five user group host of the on air in the cloud

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podcast and a mentor of the woman in power platform.

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Yeah, in this episode, we will explore the future of power apps, how AI is reshaping app development

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and the rise of wipe code and how makers and developers can build business applications faster

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than ever before.

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So I forgot anything.

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You know, I don't know if I've got time for anything else.

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I think you've got everything there.

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Yeah, also, yeah, I don't think so then so many people, but for the people discovering you

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for the first time, what's your background and how did you get into Microsoft technology?

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Yeah, yeah, thanks, Merco.

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And thanks for having me on the show.

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I'm a fan already, so it's great to be on the podcast.

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Um, yeah, a bit of background about me is you say I'm Keith Adleton.

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I'm a power platform solution architect.

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That's my main role in my day job.

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I work for cap Gemini, one of the large consultancies and Microsoft partners.

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The way started for me is really a long, long time ago when I graduated from a science degree.

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I wanted to go into programming and the first job I had it was a mixture of different technologies.

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But the Microsoft tech stacks kept coming back again and again, it was more pro-deaf for me.

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That's been the majority of my career up until the last four years or so, but it would

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always come out into either a visual basic or a dot net or a seawalls over there.

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It always be some kind of Microsoft tech is the main theme.

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And then the majority of my career was internal development for many organizations, in different

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sectors.

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Again, maybe focusing mostly on dot net and seawalls server.

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So when I started a new job about four years ago, they asked me in week one, so you know,

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you can work on these different things, but could you look up Power Apps?

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And I was completely new to the power platform.

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But again, Power the Microsoft tech stack integrated well with all the Microsoft tools like seawalls

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server and many Azure services as well.

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So I thought, yeah, let's have a look and it's something where I really enjoyed using it.

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I can build solutions very, very quickly.

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You know, that low code, no code approach.

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So really, I just sort of doubled down on that power platform and recently a co-pilot

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studio since then.

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Yeah.

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What the, uh,

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a moment where you realize,

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how X was going to become your major force in business development or.

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Well, that's a great question because it was something that got me hooked, which was when

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I was doing, um, again, Pro Dev projects, either Web Apps or WinForm Apps, I would actually

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do a similar build again and again.

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It would be a similar kind of structure to the apps.

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And there was even one at one point I even made like a scaffolding system that would actually

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create the template of an app based off a data model, almost like a very, very basic

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version of a model driven app because I could see myself repeating the same, um, the same

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tasks again and again to build up that the, that the basics of an app and all the back

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end with, uh, or the data, uh, functions as well.

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So yeah, when I came to do work on some power apps, I just built some internally for the organization

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I was working for and I found that once I'd up skilled past those basics and could create

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them, I could create them much faster than I could create a pro code app.

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So for me, the appeal was there, oh, this is good.

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I can turn around and learn quicker myself.

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I can turn around proof of concepts or prototypes or even full builds for customers even quicker.

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And they kind of do the same thing.

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The forms, the grids, the usual line of business things, I could do the same thing but much,

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much faster.

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And that was part of the appeal for me.

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So I thought, well, at the end of the day, it's what the customers want.

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It's something useful for them.

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And if I can just do the same thing but quicker or 95% of the same thing but much quicker,

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then I'm sold.

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This is a platform I want to learn more about.

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Yeah.

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I think you have also different roads.

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So you're a trainer, consulting, architect and the community leadership.

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How do you view on the platform from your different perspectives?

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Yeah.

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That is interesting because I've always enjoyed helping others which I think is where the

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training comes from.

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I like the coaching, the training and sharing that knowledge with others.

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And then that's led me to formalizing that into becoming a Microsoft certified trainer

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because I'm doing training already.

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So I thought, I'll do that to kind of improve my skills and get even better at it if I

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can.

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And then that helps us as a consultant as well.

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How can we help customers?

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It's essentially helping people but I'm using tech.

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And so I think a lot of them, they are all interconnected if you like.

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It's helping others either by building them something or showing them how to build things

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themselves or going on a stage now and again, I'll go to an event and present.

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And again, share that knowledge with others so they can then build those systems.

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I think it all kind of interlinks in a way.

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So yeah, whenever I find something new or cool or a bit like today, you know, seeing how

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perhaps they're evolving going forward and the new vibe, code options in different parts

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of the system is, hey, it's great to share this because I'm learning from others who share

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it with me as well.

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So it's like, you know, helping the community as a whole, which I really love.

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With, actually, or what excited you most about the current direction of power X?

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I think one of the main things that has jumped out to me is that the way low code is going

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is changing a bit.

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So when I first started with power apps a few years ago and I saw things I can't miss

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apps.

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I thought I can just drag and drop controls on the screen.

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It's very easy.

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It's like I'm using PowerPoint or something.

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It's straightforward.

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And oh, this is great.

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It's much quicker than, hey, let me write pages of code to get to the same thing.

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I think recently when I saw some new things like the, the, the generative pages in power apps,

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that was one of the first ones I came across where, hey, you can use a co-pilot type experience

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just to describe what you want, describe that page and then it would generate the page.

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And, you know, as well as that around the same time we've had things like the Vibapse,

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in power apps, we've had code apps in power apps that all have similar experiences where

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you just provide that prompt.

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You don't even need to drag and drop things.

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You just say, I want a button in the top left of the screen and it will just do it.

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So I do like that.

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It's become even easier than the drag drop and it can do more sophisticated things now.

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So I think that was a turning point for me when a co-pilot type experience really

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became useful and gave good results.

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And when you look ahead, I would say we are techs, so not for those three or five years,

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but those say six months.

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What do you think the power apps become?

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You think going forward in the future?

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Yeah, I think, I think more of this kind of vibe coding experience, this code where you

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provide the prompt and then you see things being built.

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I think there's a really good tool there.

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Like I said, people might be new to this, but one of them is Vibapse or the power apps Vib

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Experience is known as, and this is really where when you go to the web page to create power

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app, you can then have a co-pilot type prompt.

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You describe what you want.

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You can even upload your requirements from a project if you want or a screenshot, things

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like this.

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And then it will go ahead and build a single app based on that.

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So I think things along those lines where you've got this kind of easy to use experience

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is a good way to go and it keeps things low code for people who are maybe non-technical,

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citizen developers, citizen makers, people who are within the organization who don't have

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coding experience.

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So I think more things might go along that way where it's easy for anyone to pick up.

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And then if you do get any kind of geeky person like me who likes the code, then they're able

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to open it in a visual studio code or something else to tweak the code and make little tweaks

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and adjustments if they need.

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But I think something that's then the starting point or something that anyone can use, I think

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that way going forward is going to be the most useful for everyone, I think.

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Are we moving towards a world where every business is used as a developer or did you think

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that's a little bit too much?

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Great question because I know when Power Apps was in the early days and the idea that Microsoft,

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many of the low code providers out there, there's some great other systems as well as Microsoft,

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is that their idea was to democratize app development and solution development.

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Sometimes it might be a power to make cloud flow to automate something.

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And I think again, maybe the goal there was to open this up instead of going to a busy

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development team who has to build everything, you can build your own apps with drag drop.

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And there are some cool new things in the Microsoft 365, co-pilot like the app builder as

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well.

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And then the first thing I want to do is create a basic app with a few grids and a form,

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I would just describe what I need in it, it gives me the basics of that, like a starting

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point.

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So I think maybe in future it will be that it's just open to all.

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And then again, if you need to extend it with someone with a bit deeper tech or knowledge,

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like me or you or anyone with coding experience, it can then be extended if needed using

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those skills.

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And how is AI changing the expectation around app development speed?

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I have the feeling now the company thinks they get an enterprise solution in one day.

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I really is changing so fast.

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I think the way that vibe coding and that's the term used for now, I don't know if people

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might change that term in future.

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I think the way that is going is really cool.

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And in fact, very recently on my user group, when you mentioned kindly, as the power platform

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community high five, it's an online user group that me and a friend of mine, Sarah Jones,

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runs every month.

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There was a really good session by Franco and also about power pages development very recently.

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And he was showing that using Claude, other tools were available, but by using Claude code,

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Claude was able to create something within one hour that would have taken in manually maybe

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two weeks to create.

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So as you say, you might have customers or your organization saying great, so you can turn

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around work much quicker.

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But as you say, there's also the side of, do we need the human in the loop to review that

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code or at least the structure?

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Or do we just ask AI to review the code?

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You know, there's a few options there.

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And maybe test things.

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I've seen a few vibe coded websites over the last few months with non technical people who

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mean really well, they've used different platforms, but they've maybe not added the testing

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or done manual testing as well and something like registration or password reset or other things

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are just not working, you know, not working properly.

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So I think it may be, hey, we can turn around something quick, maybe even a POC or something

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for pre sales, but to really make it production ready and he's like really thorough testing

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and say, you know, many of it in all the code, but let's make sure that code works as expected.

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So maybe, maybe we'll be doing more on the testing side in future than the development

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side, you know?

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Yeah, this is awesome.

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So many changing.

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I have used my raw fish, yeah, for a few days and and ran how can I develop my podcast?

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And it's generated, I think up to 1000 companies, a real companies and look and

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and 12,000 customers and you can get a report and they talk, then you see, okay, it could be

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the development, it's the what, what the target is.

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It's so awesome.

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What the technology can do actually and the funny part is the guy who built this and I think

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a lot of research companies getting panic.

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It's only he only did it in 10 days.

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So this is really, really awesome.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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What did you think, what, which role do co-pilot in generative, a I play, uh, inside power platform

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ecosystem today?

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There's so many places I can see it being introduced and it's a really good point because power

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platform and again, I know many other systems out there getting this introduction of early

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on early on, a couple of years ago.

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When I'm creating a canvas app and I'm writing the code, which is power effects for a canvas

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app, this ways where they introduced a co pilot experience to say, Hey, if you type in

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a common, this is a, a, a, a function that does a BC, then that code could be auto generated

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off your comment.

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So it's like you, you know, you've prompted and what you want the code to be or you might

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be able to use the co pilot experience the other way to say, here's a block of code, explain

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to me, what does that code do?

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So I could see these kind of entry points coming in of starting to use AI to try and assist

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the developers, the makers and then alter the other way around as well for the end users,

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providing a co pilot prompt for them to say query your data instead of doing lots of filtering

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and sorting and trying to figure it out.

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You could say, you know, you know, how many of these orders are outstanding and then it

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would give us the answers and even give us a chart or a visual to help us see that as

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well.

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I think some more of those are coming into play.

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I see more and more of those like, you know, additions here.

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There's a big thing quite recently as well where there's been a blending between the apps

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side and the agent side as well.

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So again, many apps where you can actually have an agent within to ask those questions

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or, you know, create me a chart based on this table of data or ask all the kind of queries

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of that data.

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And then the other way around, I'm seeing things like M365 co pilot and other parts of co pilot

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where you can say, hey, add me a record into this system and you could actually do some

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data manipulation there as well.

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So there's kind of a crossing over and it's really for the end users to see what the right

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tool is for what they want to do.

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So that's one part.

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The other part, the second main part I see is that developer experiencing creating the

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solutions.

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So there's a really good thing, plans or plan designer in the power platform where you can

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say, hey, I need to build a solution.

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Let's say, for example, I'm running a podcast.

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I need to keep track of all of my shows, all of the guests.

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And then it might, what this plan designer does is then it comes up with a design, say,

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okay, I think you need an admin app.

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You might need a power page, just website for the guests to use.

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You might need a few reports, a few automations that would generate a proposal for that entire

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solution.

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And then many parts of actually go ahead and create those, create the apps, create the flows.

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And so things like that to help us as builders again, can turn around solutions and apps much,

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much quicker.

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So yeah, there's a lot of opportunities.

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And it feels like almost every week or every few weeks, new features are coming out.

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So it's a full time, up to keep up.

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Yeah.

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Normally it's renamed one of the year.

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And so I put it on the new logo as well.

254
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Before we deep dive into the AI, web coding topic, there's actually, or what will you say,

255
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is there an organization still misunderstand power apps, actually?

256
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There are some, that's, it's a really good point because as my job is a consultant and an

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architect,

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I kind of, you know, how can I put this, ideal with customers or prospective customers at

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all different stages.

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Now, some of them might already be using a power platform, or they might have used it to

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a basic level, or they've only heard of it and they've not implemented it.

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And some, they have no knowledge of power platform or low code systems.

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So I find on many projects, there's that kind of, you know, checking in with the customer

264
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and going on the journey with them to see what stages they are.

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Do they want somewhat skilling on the platform?

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Sometimes it goes back to training and say, look, we already have a team of developers,

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but they do pro-dev.

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We want them to build our own power apps.

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We don't want you to build us the power up, we want to build ourselves.

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Could you train us or, or prepare us for some of the Microsoft certifications so they

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can go ahead and build their own?

272
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So it's a really good point.

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I think that's one part is where, where are they?

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Where are they customer at the moment?

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And how can we help them on that journey, no matter what, what's right for them?

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But yeah, sometimes there are misconceptions of, there was one quite recently, where they

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expected a canvas app, excuse me, to kind of do everything for them.

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Like, hey, if I create the data model, can this just give me all the buttons to save the

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data, the notifications on the screen, give me the nice UI?

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You know, they kind of, I think they were expecting the prompt experience to generate

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the whole thing and didn't realize they still had to drag and drop and build things up themselves

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there.

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So yeah, sometimes they might know enough that maybe, you know, know what the platform is,

284
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but not know what all the capabilities are.

285
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So again, it's something, something we try and help with.

286
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:05,440
Awesome.

287
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,800
So you mentioned wipecoding.

288
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How do you define that?

289
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,720
It's a funny term, wipecoding.

290
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I think when it got popular, I could see it as many ways where you describe what you want

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the Apple system to do.

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And then generative AI will actually build it for you.

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It may be again, it may be that, hey, build me a web page that does this, hey, build me

294
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a power up that does this.

295
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,800
And it, there's a few ways of doing it.

296
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I think it's really explaining it and then generative AI is right in the code, you know, so it could

297
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be simple as like a very simple explanation.

298
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I want, I want a power up that, you know, does asset management, you know, my company, you

299
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do checks in and out laptops when people join when they leave.

300
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Can you do that?

301
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We might have lots of requirements to say, here are my company's branding colors.

302
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But here's an upload of the logo for my company.

303
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I want that in the header at the right, you know, so you could be very, very descriptive

304
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or you might have a conversation back and forth.

305
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:24,320
But at the end of the day, it's generative AI that's writing the code for you.

306
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:32,000
I think, I think you're a little bit about is, for me, is, or the question is, is widecoding

307
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:41,480
a hype or it's changing how apps build, especially I think in, I don't know, I think,

308
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an enterprise solution, or you are a bank or something.

309
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:55,760
I don't know, it's, well, yeah, this is a changing, some thinking about what's about governance,

310
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security and so on.

311
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:03,400
There are very good points because, as you say, the security, the governance, it could

312
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be that, you know, if you're using a tool, you're, you're vibrating something, for example,

313
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you've got Fizz and Spudio code, I'm using GitHub code pilot to build the code.

314
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:21,760
It may be that, yeah, as you say, if I'm, if I'm in the organization, say, well, if you,

315
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if you write all the code by hand manually and you Google everything, you search for everything

316
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and you build it and it takes your days, but that same system is only going to take a

317
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:36,640
few hours, if you buy code it, why you not buy code in it because it's going to be much

318
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:37,640
quicker.

319
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It might catch things you don't in the code.

320
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It might, you know, deal with issues or edge cases or problems.

321
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:49,760
So yeah, I think there's a good, a good case for a Y-Vive coding is, is, is good to use if

322
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you can.

323
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The time saved alone is brilliant.

324
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And there, you write, the governance, the tools, you know, you, you might get things like

325
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shadow IT or shadow AI where people are bringing in their own generative AI to say, you know,

326
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the organization might say, hey, use get up copier or use chat GPT or, or just copier let's

327
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:15,760
you can keep all the enterprise data protection, keep all the data within the attendant, but

328
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if anyone brings in outside tools and then your data goes outside of a, I don't know, a GDPR

329
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:26,520
safe zone and it goes to US data centers for certain models that could then very well

330
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be a big problem for the organization.

331
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,880
So you write, you know, governance security, it's really important to make sure that we

332
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:38,200
comply by all the standards and regulations we've got otherwise, you know, it could constitute

333
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,280
things like data, data leaks, data regions.

334
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:42,560
So yeah, really good point.

335
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,400
Yeah, I have for two months, I have talked to a company.

336
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:53,920
There also was interested in, and I tell them all the security and governance compliance

337
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,640
and all the topics and they say, okay, we have a solution.

338
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We cut down power apps, power automate, then we have no risk, then I say, okay, then we

339
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have the risk to build up shadow ID, but feel free.

340
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,240
Yeah.

341
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:20,640
Is there something or where do I currently struggle when it's built a power app?

342
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,880
Is there something or is it perfect?

343
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:24,880
It's not perfect.

344
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,600
No, that's, that's a great question.

345
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Because there are things where new models and new versions of models are coming out of

346
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the time.

347
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And you know, I've seen different people report like, oh, this new model is now such a big

348
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,640
improvement, but it's more expensive than the last model I would never use the last model.

349
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,560
I'd never use the last version.

350
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,880
So it feels like there's an evolution at the moment, like the models get better or they

351
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,840
get more knowledgeable, the more dimensions, the more powerful.

352
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,160
So there are things where it is improving.

353
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:05,920
There's sometimes the co-pilot experience that I mentioned before about writing the power

354
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:06,920
effects.

355
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,240
I think the early, the early versions, sometimes it was good with basic code snippets, that's

356
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,960
something more advanced, it might struggle a bit.

357
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:20,000
So then I would go separately to co-pilot or another tool outside of the, of the designer

358
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,520
to actually, okay, this is a bit more complex.

359
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:28,920
I would this work and then bring it back into the designer again in a safe, secure way.

360
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,560
So there was some things where you can see improvements.

361
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:39,320
And I think some things that I'm looking for improvements at the moment are some of them

362
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,160
where maybe the UI is not quite what I need.

363
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:47,400
And so one of them I used recently called generative pages, which I think is really good and it's

364
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,560
improving all the time.

365
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,560
There was a time fairly recently I used it.

366
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,360
I uploaded a screenshot of the website.

367
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,360
I played guitar.

368
00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:57,360
I love guitars.

369
00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:58,360
It was a guitar shop.

370
00:24:58,360 --> 00:24:59,360
It was online.

371
00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:01,360
It was a guitar website.

372
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:05,600
I said, okay, could you, could you build this website as a generative page?

373
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,480
Now to be fair, it's quite complex.

374
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:13,240
There was filters and categories and sorting and galleries and all sorts going on.

375
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:14,480
But I thought, I'll just push my lock.

376
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:15,480
I'll be cheap.

377
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:16,480
Yeah, I'll ask it.

378
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,800
I tried to do this in a generative page and it just struggled.

379
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,480
It was a big ask, but it did struggle.

380
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,920
And it gave me all these topics and filters at the top that there were buttons that didn't

381
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:26,920
do anything.

382
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,280
It was just, it just created the picture, but not much of it was actually functional.

383
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,280
There was gallery.

384
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,280
It didn't scroll again.

385
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,920
This was kind of me, you know, me being cheeky and asking for a lot.

386
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,280
But I did think that maybe in future those models will project to say, I do realize this

387
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,280
gallery needs a working scroll bar.

388
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:49,000
I'm guessing these breadcrumbs are the top of things that must be clickable to do things.

389
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,680
So I think, you know, it didn't work at that time a few weeks ago.

390
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,040
It's probably going to be fine in the near future.

391
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:04,280
Yeah, then if in the future it's possible, it's possible that the power X also can become

392
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,600
power up pages.

393
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,920
So then we see the guitar store online.

394
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:20,440
I think AI is really good in understand technical syntax, but on the underside we have business

395
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,440
logic.

396
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:33,200
And what did you think, how good is AI understand business logic and what is the role

397
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,080
of development in the future?

398
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:41,720
Is it going more understanding the technical syntax or is it more growing in the business

399
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,400
logic?

400
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:50,040
The business logic is an interesting one because I've found that when I've coded before

401
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,440
basic things.

402
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:58,880
So in Power Platform we've got things like business rules where you could say, you know,

403
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,680
check this value and then, you know, make a decision, you know, almost like a visual

404
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,400
flow diagram.

405
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,320
Here's your decision, here's the yes path, here's the no path.

406
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:16,720
You choose whether you show or hide a tab or something like that.

407
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,360
Previously when I've worked on some pro code systems, I've worked on things maybe with complex

408
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:23,800
algorithms in different industries.

409
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,760
And sometimes it's a lot more nuanced.

410
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,360
It's a lot more like a big mathematical formula where you've got lots of brackets and

411
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:33,000
edge cases and nested cases.

412
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:39,440
And sometimes I find those can be, you know, they might be a bit trickier to describe because

413
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:40,600
it's more of a formula.

414
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:46,920
Of course you can, you know, upload a screenshot or a copy and paste a formula into these designers.

415
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:52,760
But sometimes I find that kind of niche business logic, those things that are a bit more complex.

416
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:58,320
They really need to run you testing with, you know, vibe coded systems of any kind, just

417
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:03,760
because it may not interpret the brackets in the right order or I may have not given enough

418
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:04,760
context.

419
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:05,920
So I think you're right.

420
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:13,760
I think focusing on those business requirements, being specific with them as much as possible,

421
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:19,160
whether they get supported by diagrams or screenshots and lots of very clear text with

422
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,320
clear context, that's probably where the future is going to go.

423
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:28,560
We may even get to the future where why do we need to as humans review the code because

424
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:33,160
we might just need to test to see does the code do what we say it does and no matter how

425
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,480
that code is written, it doesn't matter because it works.

426
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:42,880
So it may go that way in the future where, well, why am I reviewing the code if the JNI is

427
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,680
so much more powerful than my code anyway?

428
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,240
Who's for me to say that?

429
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,080
Yes, I'm happy with this AI code.

430
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:54,960
The AI might become so much smarter actually don't quite understand, you know, how that

431
00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,000
code has been written or it's a language I don't use very often, for example.

432
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,840
So yeah, I've got to bring it me go that way.

433
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:08,240
We've got to get the business, the domain knowledge and those those rules, those skills

434
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,320
that we build together.

435
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,400
We've got to get those as accurate as we can and then make sure the testing proves that

436
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:14,560
it works.

437
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:20,920
And the thing, prompt engineer becomes a cross-gall for platform makers, powerful for

438
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:21,920
makers.

439
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:22,920
Absolutely.

440
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:29,200
Yeah, something like that, that prompt engineer knowing good ways of architecting the prompts,

441
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:35,160
you know, some models like GCSE, you know, ways of providing context and expectations and

442
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,160
so on.

443
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,160
I think it's a good way.

444
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,200
And as you say, it might not just be developers, it might be the people who then generate

445
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,080
the documentation from it.

446
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,600
It might be the people who the project manages to say, well, if this part of the project

447
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:52,720
stepping co-pilot something else, tell me what is the impact on future sprints because

448
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:53,720
of this.

449
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:59,120
So I think, yeah, that's just going to be, you know, some cross, you know, something, a skill

450
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,080
that's going to be transferable to all different teams, all different roles.

451
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,080
Hmm.

452
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:09,800
And how do you see the balance between low code, no code, pro code and yeah, AI generated

453
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,520
code on I've called it.

454
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:13,520
Yeah.

455
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:19,120
It may be, I mean, I've seen from Microsoft recently in recent sessions where again, not to

456
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,240
get too specific, but the different types of power apps they've got and as a few now,

457
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,840
the ones that I started with canvas apps where you get the blank canvas, you drag and drop

458
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:30,840
your control.

459
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,120
And like, that was low code because again, I'm not writing the code to put the controls on

460
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,120
the screen.

461
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:37,120
I drag and drop.

462
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,960
Oh, this is so, so easy.

463
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:39,960
Right.

464
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,920
And now I don't even need to do that.

465
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,800
I just describe what I will upload a screenshot or even, you know, screw it on a piece of paper

466
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,960
and then upload that and then it does it.

467
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,880
I've not even had to drag and drop.

468
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:58,000
So it may be that that version of low code of canvas apps may not be as relevant in future

469
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,520
if all you need to do is describe it or get a screenshot of something that you want and

470
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:03,520
then it generates it.

471
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,880
So why have I spent hours dragging and dropping and creating an iKlay out if I can

472
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,240
just explain the layout that I want?

473
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,960
So I think, yeah, maybe that vibe code, that prompting approach is probably what's going

474
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,120
to overtake a lot of these kind of manual experiences.

475
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:26,440
Yeah, I have also seen Microsoft themals, especially in fabric and this was awesome.

476
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,520
They build ETS pie plants in seconds, let it.

477
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:38,520
And then I get it and it's done.

478
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:47,600
This was demo, I think, yeah, I think also this was a little problem if Microsoft had introduced

479
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,080
co-pilot, they show all on it and this and then nothing works.

480
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,080
So we're good.

481
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,360
Yeah, there's that danger of that version one of not being quite good.

482
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:02,880
Was that was actually data factory or something else for ETL?

483
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,360
The demo, was it was it ADLF or something?

484
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:17,360
And it's, yeah, we tried them in the company and it's, oh God, it's was, yeah, yeah.

485
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:25,120
So and the bad thing on it was the management, they get also showing it and then they say,

486
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,720
oh, you know, we can, you know, all the systems build in five minutes.

487
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,960
So and then it take much, much more longer.

488
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:42,880
This was, this was, I think there was a risk and also some, yeah, people get a little bit

489
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:48,520
worried about because they show all the nice features to the management and then the

490
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:55,880
Van Opasta, okay, here, now you can do it all in seconds.

491
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:05,520
But I think it makes app development definitely faster.

492
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:18,400
But when we think on bottlenecks in AI, what is, so I think this was a little bit

493
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:26,000
bad, what I say, but, but, but where the biggest bottlenecks AI is removing from development

494
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,240
from your perspective.

495
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:35,120
That's a good one, actually, really good question because there are, I'm trying to think

496
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:41,000
of bottlenecks where, again, if I'm in a canvas app or somewhere where I've had to manually

497
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,880
create the app, and this could go with a pro code, a vibe coded app as well.

498
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,000
I'm just thinking a low code at the moment.

499
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,200
Sometimes I can spend a lot of time on the layout.

500
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,120
I want this app to be responsive.

501
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,600
It's got a work in portrait, landscape or multiple devices.

502
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,320
And if I've not done it for a while, I might be tinkering around with containers and other

503
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,800
ways of kind of juggling the layout of things.

504
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,520
And that is sometimes cumbersome.

505
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,680
It's sometimes it's, it's, it's a lot of work.

506
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,160
It's a lot of testing to make sure it works fine, but I can, I can explain it.

507
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:23,520
I can describe it quickly or I can even sketch some, um, just, you know, designs, some wire

508
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,640
frames quite quickly, but the adjement implementation and things like that, it can still take a long

509
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,840
time and a lot of time to test.

510
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:38,680
So I think things like that where it's maybe, it's a process that takes a long time to do,

511
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,960
even if it's not difficult or complex, it's just like a lot of work, a lot of trial and

512
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,240
error and making sure it works as expected.

513
00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:49,480
I think bottlenecks like that, things that are going to take a long time.

514
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,960
If you could describe, say, well, here's a few screenshots of the app on different devices

515
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,800
in different portrait landscape modes, make the layout like that.

516
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:02,520
If something like that is strong with five coding, then that is just going to naturally save

517
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,800
a lot of time to get to the same result.

518
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,520
And I think a lot could be said as well, the same for code.

519
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,880
We're doing the same thing again and again, like, I need to submit this form.

520
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:18,960
I need to make sure it's saving the data, saving new records, it's updating existing records.

521
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,400
Instead of me doing that on lots of different screens, screens in a very very similar way,

522
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,880
if there's work, just explain it and it does it, again, it's just going to save so much

523
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,720
time to do that.

524
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:35,920
For a few days, I have talked to Lucas Paweca, he built a tool, a Figma for power apps,

525
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,920
and a lot of code.

526
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:50,360
And when you see how much faster can Teams realistic build with all this modern power apps tooling?

527
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,600
I'm sorry, say again.

528
00:35:52,600 --> 00:36:00,880
How much faster did you think Teams can build with all these modern tools, power apps, how

529
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,640
many time they can save?

530
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,840
Is there something you have?

531
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:06,840
Yeah.

532
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:07,840
Thank you.

533
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,960
That's a good point because there are so many new options now.

534
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,960
Way before, for a while, it was camera steps, we drag and drop and writing of code and model

535
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,240
driven apps, which are very quick, very powerful.

536
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:26,360
I think model driven apps at the moment, they're still quick to build the core of them, but

537
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:31,740
then we can extend them with generative pages and maybe even my code, any kind of client-side

538
00:36:31,740 --> 00:36:33,800
JavaScript that we might need.

539
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:40,280
So again, I think there's a vast saving on some of those additions, those extras for the

540
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:47,960
model driven app where the canvas app experience, as much as I love starting that way, there's

541
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:49,360
still a lot of manual work there.

542
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,960
I think the canvas app one is now going to be much faster by using something like a code

543
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:59,000
app or a vibe app because now you're essentially, for the most part, using prompts to build

544
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,480
the whole thing, that's probably where the biggest time saving is and it will continue to go,

545
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,480
I think.

546
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,160
So again, whether you can save hours or days, it's going to be on a big scale, I think,

547
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:09,160
for canvas apps.

548
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,560
To the point of even going the canvas app route is that going to take too long, if you could

549
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:20,240
just create a vibe app by writing one prompt and then waiting a few minutes instead of spending

550
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:21,680
days to build it.

551
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,160
So I think the canvas app experience is the thing that's probably going to be impacted

552
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,640
the most.

553
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:37,760
And what advice can you give companies they will scale or start with citizen development?

554
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,560
With citizen development, it's interesting because I'm working on that with a customer

555
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:47,080
of mine at the moment and the whole point is power platform governance and adoption.

556
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:52,520
So we want them to use the tools more, use licenses that the organisation has, but also

557
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,200
we're doing things like training sessions.

558
00:37:54,200 --> 00:38:01,560
I've got one later today with about power automate, actually about approvals and it's like understanding

559
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:06,120
the art of the possible, understanding what needs and one, what the platform can do, but

560
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,960
also being up to date with these new additions of again, the vibe coding, the vibe apps, the

561
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,920
ways you can just generate things and trying to do it well.

562
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:21,480
And I think the more we rely on AI to write the code, the more important is to make sure

563
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,460
the testing is solid because if I've not written the code and I just think, well, I hope that

564
00:38:25,460 --> 00:38:27,120
works.

565
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:32,240
When we test it, like a test driven development, a TDD approach, we really know the, hey, the

566
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:36,920
code that's been written for those three pages of code, it really does work as I expect.

567
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:43,400
So I think more is on validating that the results of the vibe code experience for low code,

568
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:49,320
it really does, it really does work as I expected.

569
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:56,120
We have, before we have also talk about governance and I think, AI have made it, I think, a

570
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,920
big topic.

571
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:05,000
But how it will still business approach governance versus outkilling relation.

572
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,720
There's always a fine balance with that.

573
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:12,600
And that's a great point where with power platform, we've got things like data loss prevention,

574
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:13,600
DLP.

575
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:18,360
So we can create these data policies to say, hey, I want them to use the data platform

576
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,800
called dataverse.

577
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,880
I want them to use SharePoint lists, but I don't want them to use Google Drive or something

578
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,440
else or something else.

579
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,200
So really, depending on the organization and what you do want to allow, what you don't want

580
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:36,040
to allow, is a great way that that governance model that's been in place for a long time now,

581
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,640
we can actually be configuring those.

582
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:45,120
So we can allow people within the organization, whether it be, I don't know, YAN in accounts

583
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:52,560
or whether it be Michael in HR, they're not technical, they can create their own things,

584
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:57,720
but also they don't have the risk of doing the wrong thing or accessing data, they shouldn't

585
00:39:57,720 --> 00:39:59,960
or breaking something that they shouldn't.

586
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:04,520
They should just be able to play in safety, experiment and build solutions that work for

587
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:05,520
them.

588
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,880
So I think you're right, again, the governance, right, all these different ways of locking

589
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:14,720
down to make sure it's safe where they build is in a safe environment and it's development

590
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:20,320
or not in the production environment to start with, it's really important to get that right,

591
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,800
so then we can just empower them, train them, coach them if they want it so they can just

592
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,720
get up and running and build what they want for their own solutions.

593
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:33,760
So yeah, keeping that approach, it's not coming to a small team of developers, they can

594
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,400
self-serve, they can help themselves.

595
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,400
So yeah, I think that's super useful if they can.

596
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:45,880
Yeah, I think as MEP you can give Microsoft product manager some advice of what they should

597
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:46,880
do.

598
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:55,240
When they should something at tomorrow to the PowerPages, what should it be?

599
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:56,240
Our pages?

600
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:57,240
Oh, sorry.

601
00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:02,480
No, no, no, no, it's good because they're both good systems.

602
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:07,840
I mean, PowerPages is, again, for for listeners background is a way of creating website

603
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:14,260
shoes in low code and quite recently as well, we've got some extra features where you could

604
00:41:14,260 --> 00:41:22,640
open up the pages in using a plug-in or using Visual Studio code and actually then,

605
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,080
find code the PowerPages and play around with it quite.

606
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,040
So instead of just the drag drop tools and some of the other features, you can open up

607
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,240
PowerPages in your editor and use it that way and then perhaps the internal web apps that

608
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:39,360
you can use mostly within your organization, that's kind of a core one that I'm working

609
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:40,880
with.

610
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:48,240
I think at the moment, let's say for PowerApps, I really like what code apps can do.

611
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:53,200
So this is a relatively new edition that's gone generally available early this year and

612
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:58,400
it's a way of building a PowerApp by running a few command line prompts to get started and

613
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:03,920
then you can use a coding to all like Visual Studio code to then either write code

614
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,760
manually or vibe code experience to build out the PowerApp and the great thing with it being

615
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:13,160
a PowerApp is it sits within your organization, it follows your governance model, you need

616
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,720
to sign in and authenticate using Microsoft Venture.

617
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:21,240
It's got all of the good things about PowerApps being safe within your org but now you can

618
00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:25,760
vibe code it and make it pretty much do anything you want.

619
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,960
I, well I think they're great.

620
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,640
I think the starting point of running command lines and using coding tools when the

621
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:36,600
Oracle code apps is good but that can still be quite intimidating for a lot of non-technical

622
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:37,760
people.

623
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:45,000
So again if I spoke to, I don't know, a IngaBorg in HR and I've never used code, I don't

624
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,760
know what code is but you want me to install Node.js and use this thing called Visual Studio

625
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,000
code.

626
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,160
It could be a bit of a steep learning curve for someone who doesn't want to learn coding.

627
00:42:55,160 --> 00:43:00,480
So I think if that experience could even start like the ViBax one as an actual prompt to

628
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,720
get started with the option of their extending, by opening a code editor if you want, that

629
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:07,600
would probably be the best of both worlds.

630
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:13,800
So I think yeah, a true low code starting point for all options in PowerApps would be great.

631
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:24,240
One would think about PowerApp develop, what makes a good one to a great one?

632
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:29,480
I don't know if I can advise on being a great one but I'll give it my best, right?

633
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:36,880
I think being a good PowerApp developer or software engineer is really having those requirements

634
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,320
up front and really understanding what you're building.

635
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,920
So for me when I'm working with customers and going on the journey, they might come to

636
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,920
me or the organization say, "Well, I really need an app that does A, B, C." And then the

637
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,800
more I talk with them to find out what the root cause is, what the problem is they're

638
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,480
trying to solve, it may be that they want an app built that just replicates what they

639
00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:59,840
have an Excel already.

640
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,840
So it actually doesn't solve the problem, it just gives them a slacker process that runs

641
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,240
in an app in the browser.

642
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:12,000
But if kind of just still kept it as a long running process with lots of clicks, we're

643
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:18,160
in actual fact it might be able to be automated or with a cloud flow or automated with some

644
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,920
kind of AI approach.

645
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,240
So kind of getting to the heart, having empathy, what the customer wants, where they're

646
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:28,260
coming from, what their pain points are and really understanding what their problem

647
00:44:28,260 --> 00:44:34,580
is, their business problem is more important than how good your coding is or how strong your

648
00:44:34,580 --> 00:44:35,820
vibe coding skills are.

649
00:44:35,820 --> 00:44:40,060
I think really getting to what the customer wants, how you can help them would then lead

650
00:44:40,060 --> 00:44:42,820
to choosing the right tools for the job.

651
00:44:42,820 --> 00:44:44,540
Yeah, okay.

652
00:44:44,540 --> 00:44:49,500
And now we came to another part of, I do every show.

653
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:58,220
I have still some quotes from a platform group, a platform user group.

654
00:44:58,220 --> 00:45:02,700
And yeah, I will read it and give you a question.

655
00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:09,860
So the first I found was AI won't replace developers, but developers using the AI replace

656
00:45:09,860 --> 00:45:13,260
those who don't.

657
00:45:13,260 --> 00:45:20,500
What do that mean specifically in the power apps brought?

658
00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:23,020
It's a really good, really good quote there.

659
00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:26,740
And I've heard some of them before, like you say, you know, it's AI not taking the job,

660
00:45:26,740 --> 00:45:33,060
someone using AI may, and I think back to that experience we talked about earlier, where

661
00:45:33,060 --> 00:45:39,460
if you coded manually from memory with some googling and took days to create something that

662
00:45:39,460 --> 00:45:44,540
vibe coding could do in a few hours, if you compare them side by side, it's hard to say,

663
00:45:44,540 --> 00:45:50,020
well, why would you go for the longer, difficult manual approach without the assistance?

664
00:45:50,020 --> 00:45:56,020
And it's almost like these days to say, you know, not using AI might be saying, well,

665
00:45:56,020 --> 00:45:57,620
I'm not using Google anymore.

666
00:45:57,620 --> 00:45:59,340
I'm not going to search online for anything.

667
00:45:59,340 --> 00:46:02,980
It's purely from memory, purely from the books on my shelf.

668
00:46:02,980 --> 00:46:04,060
I'm going to do it pure.

669
00:46:04,060 --> 00:46:05,260
I'm not going to use the AI way.

670
00:46:05,260 --> 00:46:11,660
But again, when you compare and some of these AI tools are free or affordable and they make

671
00:46:11,660 --> 00:46:17,260
such a vast difference to your productivity, it's hard to say why you wouldn't use those

672
00:46:17,260 --> 00:46:18,260
tools.

673
00:46:18,260 --> 00:46:23,420
So I think yet using AI in some element, whether it's helped you write the documentation,

674
00:46:23,420 --> 00:46:29,060
prove the requirements or, or hey, tell me what to ask my customer to find out more or

675
00:46:29,060 --> 00:46:30,540
even to write the code itself.

676
00:46:30,540 --> 00:46:35,900
I think AI is here to stay and it's the way of the future.

677
00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:39,900
The next one is the future of software is conversation.

678
00:46:39,900 --> 00:46:49,300
So did you think the future is really, we only talk to power apps, to greater app or

679
00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:50,300
was there?

680
00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:51,300
I was going to do.

681
00:46:51,300 --> 00:46:52,300
Could do.

682
00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:53,300
Yeah, could do.

683
00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:57,260
More integrations that make it easy and frictionless.

684
00:46:57,260 --> 00:47:04,620
So you know, like we can for many things, you know, co-pilot or official studio code, you know,

685
00:47:04,620 --> 00:47:08,780
with the chat window, you can just turn on the microphone and explain what you need.

686
00:47:08,780 --> 00:47:09,780
So that is an easy way.

687
00:47:09,780 --> 00:47:10,780
I've not typed it.

688
00:47:10,780 --> 00:47:11,780
I've just said it.

689
00:47:11,780 --> 00:47:12,780
So that's great.

690
00:47:12,780 --> 00:47:16,580
And it may be that more integrations happen in the future to say, well, if the customer

691
00:47:16,580 --> 00:47:21,340
is written their requirements down in a word document, we just plug that word document

692
00:47:21,340 --> 00:47:24,220
into power apps and it would generate, why be a middle man?

693
00:47:24,220 --> 00:47:30,100
Why be in the person in the middle when I can actually say just directly go through and

694
00:47:30,100 --> 00:47:34,180
then it might even come back with questions, follow questions like the planning mode can

695
00:47:34,180 --> 00:47:38,220
do to say, oh, this is good, but do you want to offline as well?

696
00:47:38,220 --> 00:47:40,980
All that's good, but what devices are using?

697
00:47:40,980 --> 00:47:47,100
So I think that kind of, you know, we might just be like, you know, like directors in the

698
00:47:47,100 --> 00:47:51,260
middle, like managing the traffic back and forth, but something like that, just to keep

699
00:47:51,260 --> 00:47:54,500
it seamless as possible.

700
00:47:54,500 --> 00:48:00,500
And then I use this often because I find it funny in the reviews.

701
00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:07,380
Low-code means low skills, low-code means on point, point of point.

702
00:48:07,380 --> 00:48:10,580
What skill I really met our most today?

703
00:48:10,580 --> 00:48:11,580
Yeah.

704
00:48:11,580 --> 00:48:12,580
Yeah.

705
00:48:12,580 --> 00:48:14,180
I've heard some of things before.

706
00:48:14,180 --> 00:48:17,220
Yeah, like the low code load and so on.

707
00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:25,380
But I think, I think, yeah, knowing what the capabilities of the tools are really important.

708
00:48:25,380 --> 00:48:30,220
So with some of these tools like with the power up one specifically, you know, the five apps,

709
00:48:30,220 --> 00:48:33,900
the generative pages, the code apps, these are three of the bigger things coming out of

710
00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:36,780
the moment that are getting more popular.

711
00:48:36,780 --> 00:48:41,940
Now some of them only work with certain NPM packages for the geeky code side of what

712
00:48:41,940 --> 00:48:43,620
they're capable of doing.

713
00:48:43,620 --> 00:48:48,780
If I write a custom connector using C-sharp, there's only so many namespaces in C-sharp that

714
00:48:48,780 --> 00:48:50,180
I can use.

715
00:48:50,180 --> 00:48:54,700
So knowing that, hey, I can describe it and something gets built is good, but knowing where

716
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:59,140
those limitations are, knowing what is possible with it is really important.

717
00:48:59,140 --> 00:49:03,620
It doesn't always mean that you have to get geeky in the way to that kind of geeky level,

718
00:49:03,620 --> 00:49:07,140
but knowing, oh, this one can deal with offline mode.

719
00:49:07,140 --> 00:49:08,140
This one cannot.

720
00:49:08,140 --> 00:49:11,900
But that might then help me choose which one I'm going for.

721
00:49:11,900 --> 00:49:14,100
For this one, let's me use only data verse at the moment.

722
00:49:14,100 --> 00:49:17,460
This one, let's me use any of the 1500 connectors.

723
00:49:17,460 --> 00:49:21,100
That's important because I want to use systems other than data verse.

724
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:25,460
So I think staying up to date, keeping the way of the capabilities is more important than

725
00:49:25,460 --> 00:49:27,500
how good your code is being written.

726
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:33,340
And that's useful as an architect to know, you know, how you can design solutions for customers.

727
00:49:33,340 --> 00:49:39,220
The last one, governance show, be an able innovation, not block it.

728
00:49:39,220 --> 00:49:44,540
Do those governments look like in modern organizations today?

729
00:49:44,540 --> 00:49:49,620
Many of the organizations I've been working with, I really love that way using tools where

730
00:49:49,620 --> 00:49:50,620
possible.

731
00:49:50,620 --> 00:50:00,380
Now recently, the Microsoft created a tool called the, the CLE starter kit, which was used for

732
00:50:00,380 --> 00:50:02,860
governance within the power platform.

733
00:50:02,860 --> 00:50:06,980
That was recently announced that the development would be halted on that.

734
00:50:06,980 --> 00:50:11,580
So it's still available for people to use, but it's not going to be under active development.

735
00:50:11,580 --> 00:50:16,380
Things like that and other tools were useful for organizations to govern parts of the power

736
00:50:16,380 --> 00:50:20,820
platform and see things from a high level, high scale and report on them.

737
00:50:20,820 --> 00:50:25,260
So maybe that we've got new things within the power platform admin center and other community

738
00:50:25,260 --> 00:50:29,500
built tools are actually going to be useful to handle that governance going forward.

739
00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:33,820
So I think a good use of the bright tool for the right job either internally created,

740
00:50:33,820 --> 00:50:39,180
the community created or Microsoft provided and just making sure their cat took today and

741
00:50:39,180 --> 00:50:43,180
you know, we again, we kind of used the best tools for the job.

742
00:50:43,180 --> 00:50:46,540
That's really the way forward for strong governance, I think.

743
00:50:46,540 --> 00:50:49,220
Okay, now the rapid fire round.

744
00:50:49,220 --> 00:50:57,220
So I ask questions and five minutes and we call many questions we get answered.

745
00:50:57,220 --> 00:50:59,020
So let's go.

746
00:50:59,020 --> 00:51:07,260
What are our model driven apps model driven apps favorite power platform feature right now.

747
00:51:07,260 --> 00:51:08,740
Code apps.

748
00:51:08,740 --> 00:51:11,420
One Microsoft tool people are underestimating.

749
00:51:11,420 --> 00:51:14,140
Oh, that's a great one.

750
00:51:14,140 --> 00:51:17,260
Power pages, I think that could be used more.

751
00:51:17,260 --> 00:51:21,860
AI features a blow your mind recently.

752
00:51:21,860 --> 00:51:28,300
The new Claudeau Pass model, citing super powerful.

753
00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:32,180
Coffee, tea or energy during developments.

754
00:51:32,180 --> 00:51:34,340
Oh, yes, going to big questions.

755
00:51:34,340 --> 00:51:37,660
Coffee every time for me.

756
00:51:37,660 --> 00:51:41,740
One productivity habit used to provide.

757
00:51:41,740 --> 00:51:47,860
Strong time management blocking out the calendar to make sure you use your time effectively.

758
00:51:47,860 --> 00:51:52,940
Biggest mistake you make us make.

759
00:51:52,940 --> 00:51:57,860
I think jumping in trying to build before you've learnt the basics and then maybe learning

760
00:51:57,860 --> 00:52:00,380
lessons the hard way.

761
00:52:00,380 --> 00:52:05,700
One powerful on capability people should learn immediately.

762
00:52:05,700 --> 00:52:08,380
Dataverse super powerful.

763
00:52:08,380 --> 00:52:13,860
Keep some outlook.

764
00:52:13,860 --> 00:52:14,860
On outlook.

765
00:52:14,860 --> 00:52:15,860
Okay, now you're talking.

766
00:52:15,860 --> 00:52:21,500
So I think blocking out time so you can really manage your day and reminders.

767
00:52:21,500 --> 00:52:23,420
I use lots of reminders.

768
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:26,500
Yeah, your favorite community event.

769
00:52:26,500 --> 00:52:33,300
Oh, well, so many, I mean, unbiased, but I would say the power platform community high five

770
00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:35,860
or to use a group that I run, I love it.

771
00:52:35,860 --> 00:52:40,020
I hope we get some great speakers from all over the world.

772
00:52:40,020 --> 00:52:44,700
Most exciting thing coming to Microsoft AI.

773
00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:49,260
The most what say.

774
00:52:49,260 --> 00:52:58,260
The most exciting thing coming to Microsoft AI from from AI perspective.

775
00:52:58,260 --> 00:52:59,260
Oh, great.

776
00:52:59,260 --> 00:53:00,260
Thank you.

777
00:53:00,260 --> 00:53:02,220
Oh, wow, that's such a good one.

778
00:53:02,220 --> 00:53:03,860
I'll probably go back to code apps again.

779
00:53:03,860 --> 00:53:08,900
I think it's so powerful what we can do to create a power app using the AI features in

780
00:53:08,900 --> 00:53:10,100
GitHub co pilot.

781
00:53:10,100 --> 00:53:11,100
Okay.

782
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:17,900
And then the last one, though, one word that describing the future of power.

783
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:18,900
Accessibility.

784
00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:19,900
Great.

785
00:53:19,900 --> 00:53:30,700
Oh, yeah, thank you for all those last dry, dry, dry these routes.

786
00:53:30,700 --> 00:53:32,260
As well as already funny.

787
00:53:32,260 --> 00:53:35,020
And what will you say?

788
00:53:35,020 --> 00:53:42,380
What are you most exciting about in the next years of power platform?

789
00:53:42,380 --> 00:53:46,580
Over the next year is going to be really interesting because the pace of change is just

790
00:53:46,580 --> 00:53:48,500
getting faster and faster, right?

791
00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:53,100
And it feels like it's a full time job to keep up to date with everything.

792
00:53:53,100 --> 00:53:58,820
I think these AI infused experiences, we see that's the way a lot of the Microsoft exams

793
00:53:58,820 --> 00:54:04,300
are going, they're a lot of intelligent at builders and AI strategy.

794
00:54:04,300 --> 00:54:08,140
These kind of neurons, we can see that's where a lot of focus and probably investment is

795
00:54:08,140 --> 00:54:09,140
going.

796
00:54:09,140 --> 00:54:14,380
So I think whenever makes it easy for anyone in the world to be able to build an app or

797
00:54:14,380 --> 00:54:16,540
a solution, I really want to see how that

798
00:54:16,540 --> 00:54:21,300
experience gets even easier and democratised for everyone.

799
00:54:21,300 --> 00:54:25,580
And then it really is truly then low-code, no code, anyone can build anything that they

800
00:54:25,580 --> 00:54:26,580
want.

801
00:54:26,580 --> 00:54:29,620
So yeah, I'm just looking forward to more capabilities in future.

802
00:54:29,620 --> 00:54:36,940
Okay, then my last question is, what should the people, when there's one thing from this

803
00:54:36,940 --> 00:54:41,700
session, what should they take with them?

804
00:54:41,700 --> 00:54:49,980
I think the thing to take away really is have a look into those new power apps features,

805
00:54:49,980 --> 00:54:54,500
the ones that are using AI, the ones that let you build things quickly to impress your

806
00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:57,700
organisation, your manager, your customers.

807
00:54:57,700 --> 00:55:02,980
And if you can use them and you get a lot of value to say, I could build a POC in minutes,

808
00:55:02,980 --> 00:55:07,620
I could build a new app page in minutes just by describing it.

809
00:55:07,620 --> 00:55:13,420
It might really inspire you and others to use it even more and get value from it.

810
00:55:13,420 --> 00:55:16,820
Awesome, so yeah, then I say thank you for staying here.

811
00:55:16,820 --> 00:55:19,660
This was a really, really enjoyed the session.

812
00:55:19,660 --> 00:55:20,660
Thank you so much.

813
00:55:20,660 --> 00:55:25,300
And yeah, have a nice rest day and yeah, goodbye.

814
00:55:25,300 --> 00:55:28,020
To my pleasure, thank you, Mercco.

815
00:55:28,020 --> 00:55:29,020
Thanks so much.

816
00:55:29,020 --> 00:55:30,020
See you, bye.

817
00:55:30,020 --> 00:55:31,780
Bye, now, bye.

818
00:55:31,780 --> 00:55:38,780
.