This episode discusses how organizations can securely share business data with users outside their organization using Microsoft’s Power Platform. The main focus is on designing the right architecture rather than simply enabling access.

Nicholas Hayduk (MVP) explains that external users should not be treated like internal employees. Instead of giving them direct access to systems like Dataverse, organizations should use solutions such as Power Pages to act as a secure front layer. This approach allows controlled access to data without exposing internal systems.

A key point in the episode is the importance of identity and authentication. External users should authenticate through trusted identity providers, such as Azure Active Directory or social login providers, rather than being managed directly inside the system. This improves both security and scalability.

The discussion also highlights that security must be implemented at multiple levels. It is not enough to hide data in the user interface. Proper entity permissions, role-based access control, and data filtering must be enforced to ensure users only see the data they are allowed to access.

Another major takeaway is the principle of least privilege. External users should only have access to the specific data they need, often limited to their own records. This reduces the risk of accidental or malicious data exposure.

The episode also covers common mistakes, such as giving external users too much access, relying only on UI-level restrictions, or failing to plan security and identity early in the design process.

Overall, the episode emphasizes that secure external data sharing requires careful planning, strong identity management, and properly configured permissions. When done correctly, it enables safe collaboration with partners and customers without compromising internal systems.

You can share business data with users outside your organization, and doing so has become essential for modern business. Most professionals agree that using external data sources brings value, especially through methods like third-party providers and social media insights. Security remains a top concern, as cloud-based tools and increased sharing options can lead to data exposure. Microsoft Power Pages offers a secure, scalable solution, empowering you to manage access while focusing on compliance and user experience.

Key Takeaways

Understand the risks of sharing data, including data leaks and unauthorized access. Always double-check permissions before sharing.
Classify your data into sensitive and non-sensitive categories. Only share what is necessary to minimize risk.
Use data sanitization techniques like redaction and masking to protect sensitive information when sharing.
Set clear objectives for sharing data. Tailor your approach based on the recipient's needs to enhance security and user experience.
Choose secure tools for sharing, such as Microsoft Power Pages and SharePoint, to maintain control over access and compliance.
Implement strong security measures like multi-factor authentication and encryption to protect shared data.
Regularly review and update permissions for external users. Remove access for those who no longer need it to reduce risks.
Educate your team on security best practices. Regular training can significantly reduce the chances of data breaches.

Risks of Sharing Business Data

When you share business data with users outside your organization, you open the door to new opportunities and challenges. Understanding the risks helps you make informed decisions and improve security and compliance.

Security Threats

Data Leaks

Data leaks can happen quickly and often by accident. You might send a file to the wrong person or set permissions incorrectly. These mistakes can expose sensitive information, such as employee records or financial details. Hackers look for these weaknesses and may exploit them if you do not take proper precautions.

Tip: Always double-check recipient lists and permission settings before sharing business content.

Unauthorized Access

Unauthorized access is a major concern. If you do not control who can see your files, outsiders may view or even steal confidential data. Malicious insiders can also leak information on purpose. File sharing can also introduce malware if someone opens an infected document. These threats can harm your business and put your customers at risk.

Uncontrolled sharing can lead to unauthorized access.
Accidental exposure may occur due to human error.
Malicious insiders might intentionally leak data.
File sharing can enable malware installation.

Compliance Issues

Regulatory Risks

Many laws and regulations govern how you share business data. Failing to follow these rules can result in heavy fines or legal trouble. For example, GDPR protects customer information in the European Union, while HIPAA covers health data in the United States. Companies like Sephora and Disney have faced large penalties for not meeting privacy standards.

Compliance Regulation	Description
GDPR	Requires compliance when sharing customer information, especially in the EU.
CCPA	Mandates privacy rights for California residents, affecting data sharing practices.
PCI DSS	Standards for sharing sensitive financial data with payment processors.
HIPAA	Regulations for sharing health information in the healthcare sector.
FERPA	Compliance requirements for educational institutions when sharing student data.

Contractual Obligations

You may have contracts with partners or clients that set strict rules for sharing business content. Breaking these agreements can damage trust and lead to lawsuits. Always review your contracts before sharing any files with external users.

Business Impact

Financial Loss

Security incidents can cost your business a lot of money. Data breaches may lead to fines, lost revenue, and expensive recovery efforts. You might also lose your competitive edge if sensitive information falls into the wrong hands.

Reputation Damage

Trust is hard to earn and easy to lose. If you mishandle data, customers and partners may stop doing business with you. News of a data breach can spread quickly and harm your reputation for years. Protecting your data shows that you value privacy and responsibility.

Note: Concerns about privacy, data ownership, and intellectual property rights can make organizations hesitant to share business data. Addressing these risks helps build confidence and supports safe collaboration.

Preparing to Share Business Data

Before you share business data with users outside your organization, you need to plan carefully. This preparation helps you protect sensitive information and meet compliance requirements.

Identify Data to Share

Sensitive vs. Non-Sensitive

Start by sorting your data into categories. Some information, like marketing materials, is safe to share. Other data, such as customer records or financial details, is sensitive and needs extra protection. Use a document classification system to label your files as public, internal, confidential, or restricted. This step helps you decide which documents you can share and which ones you must keep private.

Tip: Understand who owns the data and check if you have permission to share it. Always review legal and regulatory obligations before moving forward.

Data Minimization

Only share the information that is necessary. Data minimization means you limit the amount of data you send to others. This practice reduces risk and keeps your business compliant with privacy laws. For example, if a partner only needs a summary report, avoid sending full datasets. Nicholas Hayduk, a recognized expert in secure data sharing, often emphasizes that less is more when it comes to external collaboration.

Steps to identify appropriate data for sharing:

Set clear policies for data sharing.
Classify documents by sensitivity.
Choose sharing methods and access controls based on classification.

Data Sanitization

Redaction

Redaction removes sensitive details from documents before you share them. You might black out names, addresses, or account numbers. This process keeps private information safe while still allowing you to provide useful data to external users.

Masking

Masking hides parts of the data, such as showing only the last four digits of a credit card number. This method protects identities and prevents misuse. Always use masking when you need to share business data but want to keep certain details confidential.

Best practices for sanitizing data:

Specify the purpose for collecting and sharing data.
Use only the minimum information needed.
Share personally identifiable data only when necessary.
Limit access to those with a justifiable need.
Encrypt data during electronic transfers.

Define Sharing Objectives

Purpose

Know why you want to share business data. Clear objectives help you choose the right tools and security measures. For example, you might share data to support a partner project or to provide customer self-service.

Recipient Needs

Think about what your recipients need. Do they require full access or just a summary? Tailor your sharing approach to fit their needs while keeping your data secure. When you match your sharing strategy to the recipient’s requirements, you improve both security and user experience.

Note: Careful planning and clear objectives set the foundation for safe and effective data sharing.

Choosing Tools for External File Sharing

Selecting the right tools for external file sharing helps you protect your business data and streamline external file-sharing processes. You have several options in the Microsoft ecosystem, each with unique strengths for different scenarios.

Microsoft Power Pages Overview

Microsoft Power Pages stands out as a strategic solution for secure external file sharing. You can use it to build external-facing portals that connect directly to Microsoft Dataverse. This setup allows you to share files and data with customers, partners, or members while keeping control over access and security. Nicholas Hayduk, a recognized expert in secure data sharing, often highlights the importance of using platforms that offer both flexibility and strong governance. Power Pages delivers on both fronts.

Dataverse Integration

Power Pages integrates with Microsoft Dataverse, which ensures smooth data connectivity across platforms. You can automate processes and share real-time data with external users. This integration supports business growth and helps you manage information efficiently.

Identity and Access Model

Power Pages uses a flexible identity and access model. You can let users log in with Microsoft, Google, or LinkedIn accounts. The platform supports role-based access control, so you decide who sees what. This approach protects sensitive information and creates a seamless user experience. The table below summarizes key features that support secure external file sharing:

Feature	Description
Integration with Microsoft Dataverse	Ensures smooth data connectivity across platforms, enabling real-time data sharing and process automation.
Role-Based Access Control (RBAC)	Allows organizations to define different levels of access for users, protecting sensitive information.
Enterprise-Level Security	Integrates with Entra ID for identity management, ensuring sensitive data is protected from unauthorized access.
Compliance Capabilities	Helps meet compliance requirements for GDPR, HIPAA, and other global standards.

Power Pages supports secure access for external users through various login systems and provides secure data transactions, making it suitable for handling sensitive information.

Microsoft 365 and SharePoint

Microsoft 365 and SharePoint offer robust tools for sharing files with users outside your organization. You can share a file in SharePoint with specific people, set permissions, and monitor access. Nicholas Hayduk recommends using these features to reduce risk and maintain compliance.

External Sharing Settings

Share a file in SharePoint with named individuals by email address for maximum control.
Use "Anyone with a link" only when necessary, and always set expiration dates to limit access.
Restrict sharing to new and existing guests to maintain security.

Permission Controls

Set link permissions to view-only when possible.
Change the default sharing option to "People in your organization" to prevent accidental public access.
Use Microsoft Purview Data Loss Prevention (DLP) to block sensitive items from being shared.
Protect against malicious files with Microsoft Defender for Office 365.
Employ domain filtering and security groups to control who can share a file in SharePoint externally.

Tip: Always review permissions before you share a file in SharePoint to ensure only the right people have access.

Power BI and Other Tools

Power BI gives you several ways to share reports and dashboards with external users. You can choose the method that fits your needs, whether you want to collaborate with partners or publish public data sets.

Sharing Reports

The table below compares the main sharing methods in Power BI:

Sharing Method	Description
Basic Sharing	Quick way to share for testing reports and dashboards.
Workspace	Best for collaborative development between Power BI teams.
Power BI App	Ideal for sharing with end users in a controlled environment.
Publish to web	Suitable for public data sets where confidentiality is not a concern.
SharePoint Online	Good choice when SharePoint is your main portal for users.
Power BI Embedded	Lets you bring Power BI content into your application with custom user management.
Secure Embed	Allows simple, secure sharing in SharePoint on-premises or custom apps.

Licensing Considerations

You need the right Power BI licenses to share content with external users. Check your organization’s licensing plan to avoid access issues.

Note: Choose the sharing method that matches your business needs and compliance requirements.

How to Securely Share Content

Sharing business data with users outside your organization requires careful planning and strong security measures. You need to set up external access, assign permissions, and use secure methods to deliver content securely. Following these steps helps you protect sensitive information and maintain trust with your partners and customers.

Set Up External Access

Guest Accounts

You can create guest accounts for external users who need access to your business data. Guest accounts allow you to control who enters your environment and what they can see. Before you grant access, always vet your external partners. Check their cybersecurity practices and make sure they follow compliance standards. Nicholas Hayduk, a recognized expert in secure external content sharing, recommends that you establish clear agreements with your partners. These agreements should define how they handle and protect your data.

Vet external partners for strong security practices.
Set up guest accounts with limited access.
Define data handling rules in your contracts.
Review guest access regularly to remove unnecessary permissions.

Tip: Regularly assess risks linked to data sharing. Remove guest accounts that are no longer needed to reduce exposure.

Authentication Methods

Authentication methods help you verify the identity of external users. You can use multi-factor authentication (MFA) to add an extra layer of security. MFA requires users to provide two or more forms of identification before they access your data. Power Pages supports several identity providers, such as Microsoft, Google, and LinkedIn. This flexibility lets you choose the best option for your users while keeping your data safe.

Enable MFA for all external users.
Choose identity providers that match your business needs.
Monitor authentication logs for unusual activity.

Assign Permissions

Least Privilege

The principle of least privilege means you only give users the minimum permissions they need. This approach limits the risk of data leaks and unauthorized access. Nicholas Hayduk often stresses the importance of a zero-trust model. You should not assume any user is safe by default. Instead, review and adjust permissions often to keep your data secure.

Assign only the permissions needed for each user’s tasks.
Use custom permission levels for different roles.
Automate the removal of access when users no longer need it.

Note: Regular permission reviews help you spot and fix potential risks before they become problems.

Time-Limited Access

Time-limited access lets you grant permissions for a set period. After the time expires, the system removes access automatically. This method works well for temporary projects or short-term collaborations. You reduce the chance of forgotten accounts exposing your data.

Set expiration dates for guest access.
Use automated tools to manage time-limited permissions.
Notify users before their access ends.

Send Data Securely

Secure Links

When you share files or data, use secure links that require authentication. Secure file sharing platforms, such as Microsoft Power Pages and SharePoint, let you create links that expire after a certain time or after a set number of uses. You can also restrict downloads or limit access to view-only. These features help you securely share content with external users.

Create links that require sign-in.
Set expiration dates for shared links.
Limit link access to specific users or groups.

Encryption

Encryption protects your data during transfer and storage. End-to-end encryption ensures that only authorized users can read your files. Secure file transfer solutions, like SFTP or enterprise file sharing platforms, use encryption to keep your information safe. Nicholas Hayduk recommends using encryption for all sensitive data, especially when you deliver content securely to external users.

Method	Description
End-to-end encryption	Keeps data unreadable to unauthorized parties during transfer.
Secure transmission protocols	Use SFTP or similar protocols for encrypted data transfers.
Digital rights management (DRM)	Controls how shared documents can be used, such as blocking copying or editing.
Monitoring and audit capabilities	Track document access and detect suspicious activities.

Tip: Always use encryption when sharing sensitive business data. Monitor access logs to detect any unusual activity.

By following these steps, you can achieve secure external content sharing and protect your organization from risks. Regular reviews, strong authentication, and careful permission management form the foundation of secure file sharing with external users.

Best Practices for Sharing Files Outside Your Organization

When you share files outside your organization, you need to follow best practices for sharing files to keep your data safe and maintain trust. These steps help you control access, prevent leaks, and support compliance.

Use Expiration Dates

Automatic Link Expiry

Setting expiration dates on shared links limits how long others can access your files. This simple step reduces the risk of unauthorized access. If someone tries to use an expired link, they cannot open the file. Many experts, including Nicholas Hayduk, recommend this approach because it gives you more control over your shared content.

Expiration dates for shared links effectively reduce the risk of unauthorized access by limiting the time during which files can be accessed.
You can set these dates in tools like Microsoft Power Pages and SharePoint.

Restrict Downloads

Restricting downloads adds another layer of protection. When you allow only view access, you prevent recipients from saving copies to their own devices. This helps you keep sensitive information within your control. Combine download restrictions with link expiry for stronger security.

Data Loss Prevention

DLP Policies

Data loss prevention policies play a vital role in protecting sensitive business data during external sharing by identifying and limiting access to sensitive information. These policies help you block or alert users before they share confidential data. You can set up DLP policies in Microsoft 365 to scan files for sensitive content and stop risky sharing.

Blocking Sensitive Data

Blocking sensitive data ensures that only approved information leaves your organization. You can use automated tools to detect and block files containing personal details, financial records, or other confidential data. This step supports compliance and reduces the chance of accidental leaks.

User Education

Security Training

Training your team is one of the most effective ways to reduce risk. Human error causes 95% of breaches, so regular security training makes a big difference. Employees learn to spot phishing emails, verify unknown links, and follow safe sharing habits. The table below shows why training matters:

Statistic	Implication
Human error causes 95% of breaches	Employees are the weakest link in security.
Phishing attacks affect 88% of organizations	Training can significantly reduce the risk of phishing.
Companies with regular training save $232,867 per breach	Effective training programs lead to financial savings.

Clear Communication

Clear communication encourages your team to report suspicious activity without fear. When you create a no-blame culture, employees feel comfortable sharing concerns. This helps you respond quickly to threats and protect your business.

Tip: Nicholas Hayduk suggests that you combine technical controls with strong user education for the best results.

By following these steps, you can share files outside your organization securely and confidently.

External File Sharing with Microsoft Tools

When you want to share files outside your organization, Microsoft offers several tools that make the process secure and efficient. You can use Power Pages, Microsoft 365, SharePoint, and Power BI to support collaboration with external users. Nicholas Hayduk, a recognized expert in secure data sharing, often highlights the importance of choosing the right tool for each scenario to ensure both security and a smooth user experience.

Power Pages Use Cases

Power Pages helps you build portals that connect your business data to customers, partners, and communities. These portals support collaboration by giving external users access to the information they need while keeping your data safe.

Use Case	Description
Customer Self-Service Portals	Customers track orders, update profiles, and access FAQs, which improves satisfaction.
Partner and Supplier Management	Partners submit invoices, view price lists, and manage leads, making collaboration seamless.
Community Events and Engagements	Public sites for event registration and volunteer management, supporting community collaboration.

You can also create spaces for employee feedback, recruitment, and online forums. These options help you tailor your collaboration strategy to your business needs.

Customer Portals

You can set up customer portals so clients can view their orders, update their information, or find answers to common questions. This approach improves customer satisfaction and reduces support requests.

Partner Collaboration

Power Pages lets you build secure environments for partners and suppliers. Partners can submit documents, check project status, or access shared resources. Nicholas Hayduk recommends using these portals to streamline collaboration and keep sensitive data protected.

Microsoft 365 and SharePoint Steps

Microsoft 365 and SharePoint make external file sharing simple. You can follow these steps to share files with external users:

Find the document or folder you want to share on your SharePoint site.
Select the Share button.
Choose who can view the file, such as "People you specify" or "People outside your organization."
Enter the recipient’s email address.
Add a message if needed.
Send the invitation.

Tip: Review permissions before sending to ensure only the right people have access.

Sharing Files

You can share files with individuals or groups. Always use the least privilege principle to limit access. Nicholas Hayduk suggests setting expiration dates and restricting downloads for added security.

Managing Access

After sharing, you can manage access by reviewing permissions, removing users who no longer need access, and monitoring activity logs. This helps you maintain control and supports ongoing collaboration.

Power BI Sharing

Power BI enables you to share dashboards and reports with external users, supporting data-driven collaboration.

Sharing Dashboards

Make sure your Power BI admin has enabled external sharing.
Share the dashboard by sending a link to the external user’s email.
The recipient must sign in to Power BI to view the content.
If they need a license, they can sign up through the provided link.
Only the intended recipient can access the dashboard, even if the link is forwarded.

Monitoring Access

You can monitor who views your dashboards and manage permissions as needed. Use security groups for sharing with multiple external users. Nicholas Hayduk emphasizes the importance of regular reviews to ensure your collaboration remains secure.

By following these steps, you can use Microsoft tools to support secure, effective collaboration with external users and protect your business data.

Ongoing Management of Shared Data

Keeping your shared business data secure does not end after you grant access. You need to manage, review, and update your sharing practices regularly. This ongoing management helps you catch problems early and maintain trust with your partners and customers.

Troubleshooting Issues

Access Problems

External users sometimes face trouble accessing shared files or data. You might see error messages or find that certain features do not work as expected. For example, external users cannot refresh data connections in Excel Online due to tenant restrictions. The table below shows a common issue and how you can solve it:

Symptoms	Cause	Workaround
External users cannot refresh data connections in Excel Online and may receive error messages related to data model issues.	Data refresh operations in Excel Online do not support external users of a tenant.	Users can open the file in the Excel client application to refresh the data source.

Nicholas Hayduk recommends that you document these issues and share solutions with your team. This approach helps everyone respond quickly when problems arise.

Permission Errors

Sometimes, users cannot access files because of incorrect permissions. You should check if the user has the right level of access. Review group memberships and sharing settings. If you use Microsoft Power Pages or SharePoint, verify that the user’s identity matches the permissions you set. Regular permission checks help you avoid these errors.

Review Shared Data

Auditing

You need to review your shared data often to keep it secure. Nicholas Hayduk suggests that you move from yearly checks to continuous monitoring. This way, you can spot issues as soon as they happen. Follow these steps to improve your audit process:

Embrace a continuous audit mindset to catch problems early.
Prioritize your reviews based on the sensitivity and risk of the data.
Involve different departments, such as HR, legal, and finance, in the audit process.
Record and analyze audit metrics, including how quickly you resolve issues.
Update your data security audit checklist to address new threats and rules.

Audit trails help you track who accessed or changed your data. These records are important for compliance and for investigating incidents.

Removing Outdated Shares

You should remove access for users who no longer need it. This step reduces the risk of data leaks. Use these best practices:

Use Microsoft Entra ID Governance to review and remove external users who no longer need access.
Set up Entitlement Management to automate the process of granting and revoking access.
Regularly check external sharing in Teams to make sure users have the right permissions.
Revoke access to SharePoint Online files when a project ends or collaboration is complete.

Nicholas Hayduk emphasizes that regular reviews and prompt removal of outdated shares are key to strong data governance.

Stay Updated

Security Practices

You must stay current with the latest security practices. Follow these steps to protect your shared data:

Enable multifactor authentication (MFA) for all users.
Use sensitivity labels to classify and protect your data.
Set up data loss prevention (DLP) policies to stop accidental sharing.
Configure conditional access policies for extra control.
Use secure sharing options in OneDrive and SharePoint.
Enable safe links and safe attachments to block malicious content.
Apply zero-trust principles by verifying every access request.
Review and update your security policies often.

Policy Updates

Threats and regulations change over time. You need to update your policies to keep up. Review your sharing policies at least once a year or after any major change in your business. Nicholas Hayduk advises that you involve key stakeholders in these updates to make sure your policies meet both business and compliance needs.

By managing your shared data actively, you keep your business safe and support ongoing collaboration.

You can share business data securely and efficiently by following a few key steps:

Manage access and encrypt data.
Prepare for potential threats with training and recovery plans.
Eliminate unnecessary data.

Microsoft Power Pages and other Microsoft tools offer strong security, user-friendly design, and compliance support:

Feature	Power Pages	Other Microsoft Tools
User-Friendly Design	Yes	Varies
Accessibility (WCAG)	Yes	Varies

For complex needs, expert consultants can help you customize solutions and maintain compliance. Stay informed and review your sharing practices regularly.

FAQ

How do you choose the right tool for sharing data externally?

You should match your needs to the tool’s features. Nicholas Hayduk suggests using Microsoft Power Pages for secure portals and SharePoint for file sharing. Review your data type, user needs, and compliance requirements before you decide.

What is the safest way to share sensitive files?

You should use secure links with expiration dates and require authentication. Nicholas Hayduk recommends enabling encryption and limiting permissions. Always review who can access your files before you share them.

Can you control what external users see in Power Pages?

Yes. Power Pages lets you set permissions based on user identity and relationships. You decide which records each user can view. This approach keeps your sensitive data safe and supports a positive user experience.

How do you remove access for external users?

You can remove access by deleting guest accounts or revoking permissions in Microsoft Entra ID or SharePoint. Nicholas Hayduk advises regular reviews to ensure only current partners or customers keep access.

What should you do if an external user reports access problems?

First, check their permissions and authentication method. Nicholas Hayduk recommends documenting common issues and solutions. You can often resolve problems by updating permissions or guiding users through the login process.

Do you need special licenses to share Power BI reports externally?

Yes. You and your external users may need Power BI Pro or Premium licenses. Check your organization’s plan before sharing. Nicholas Hayduk notes that licensing affects both access and collaboration options.

How often should you review shared data and permissions?

You should review shared data and permissions at least every quarter. Nicholas Hayduk suggests continuous monitoring for sensitive data. Regular reviews help you catch risks early and keep your business secure.

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Hello, my name is Mokopetras and this is a special episode.

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It's the first episode with a guest.

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It's Nicolas Haydook.

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Nicolas is a Microsoft Business Applications MVP and also solution architect Della for and

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a professional engineer and he founded the Engineered Code Consulting.

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And yeah, here's also more interesting things.

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He had also in podcast, it's called CRM.audio and YouTube channel.

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So I think Nicolas, what can I say?

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It's so much what you're doing.

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Yeah, there's a bit.

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We do produce a bit of content on our, you know, we're our first technical love, this power

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pages.

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So most of my content is focused on that.

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So yeah, over the years, you know, every couple of years, you had to do a new thing

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to do and, you know, over the years is kind of added up a bit.

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Yeah, awesome.

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It's power pages.

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It's today out of the topic and yeah, I think a little bit about what is it?

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I have a look at this Microsoft page and I think is it the cloud version of front page or

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is it the front edge for for dynamics or is it a SharePoint page for external users?

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What will you say?

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That's the power page.

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Yeah, power page like is the one piece of the power platform that's really meant for external

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users.

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So, you know, the other pieces of the power platform, whether, you know, power apps, Canvas

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apps, model driven apps, you know, Power BI, those tools are really meant for an organization's

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internal users.

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And power pages is the one piece that is primarily meant for external users.

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It used to be known by many different names, used to be known as power apps, portals, dynamics

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365 portals and it was actually Microsoft didn't build it originally.

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They actually acquired it from a company called ADX Studio.

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And so what it is, it's a tool that lets you build web portals that talk to dataverse.

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So, if you have data in dataverse within your dynamics 365 applications that you want

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external people to interact with, then power pages is the tool for you.

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And the most classic use case, I think kind of the original reason that perhaps it was

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built is a kind of a customer service portal.

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So help desk tickets, that sort of thing, to have customers log in, create their own tickets

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and then kind of work back and forth with the people within dynamics 365 customer service.

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And create that ticket, upload files, start that conversation and that's kind of the classic

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use case for power pages.

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Okay, this is interesting.

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And then you say it's dataverse connected, is there any other tools I can connect or is

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it really built for dataverse?

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It is extremely dependent on dataverse.

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So like because it's essentially it's a website that people can log into, the content of the

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website to the web pages and the files for the website are stored in dataverse.

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So there's an absolute dependency requirement for dataverse.

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Now because dataverse itself can connect to a lot of different things using virtual tables,

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connectors, those types of things, you can talk to external data, you can also kind of

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write some code that we'll talk to external data systems, but for sure, the starting point

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is dataverse.

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The best use cases are when the data is in dataverse kind of already, but there are

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options to integrate with other things.

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There's connections to power BI, there's connections to SharePoint, but again, dataverse

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is the primary data source for power pages.

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Okay.

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So what's the idea when I, or how can I start with power pages, what have I need for

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licensing or how does it works?

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Yeah, licensing has been a fun topic in power pages over the years.

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So power pages is licensed primarily through logged in users.

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So what you do is you buy packs of users, they start off as a pack of say 200.

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And then for every, you know, every time a user logs in, they count as one user for that

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month.

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So depending on how many users you think you're going to log in each month, you buy the appropriate

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number of packs.

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And then it's similar if you have anonymous users or unauthenticated users, it's the same

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thing.

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So there's packs of those.

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So essentially, yeah, you buy those, those license packs and then essentially what you

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have to do is, is estimate how many users you think are going to come.

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There's a, there is also a pay as you go license someone with other parts of the power platform.

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It's basically double the price for pay as you go, but then then you're only paying for

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what you use.

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So those are kind of the two options, but it all comes down to how many your users are

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logging into your power pages site every month.

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That's the, that's the key metric in terms of licensing.

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And is that any best practice to start as company with power pages?

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In terms of licensing?

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Or just, when you make a plan for, I think a little bit, it sounds, excellent.

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Use ourselves for me a little bit like a governance, a nightmare.

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Yeah.

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I mean, typically a power page is project is not the first thing an organization does when

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they're going to the power platform.

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It's often at least kind of phase two, phase three.

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So they're getting there, their dataverse environment up, often as a dynamics 365 environments,

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they're using sales or customer service, one of those dynamics 365 customer engagement

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modules.

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And then what they're doing is they're adding power pages to it.

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So it's kind of nice sometimes to have your, you know, your dataverse all figured out and

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then you're kind of attaching power pages to it.

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So that's definitely the most common approach I would say.

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It makes it again, because it's externally users, what makes it a bit, you know, a bit unique

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is that when people log into a power page of site, you're not restricted to enter ID or

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or all Azure AD.

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So you can have, there's all sorts of different authentication mechanisms.

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You can use to log in.

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You can hook in enter external ID, but you can include all sorts of social providers.

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You can use your Facebook, LinkedIn, Google, you know, all those different authentication

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providers.

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And so that, that makes it a bit unique in the power platform as well as that you're, you're

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dealing with this other, other types of, other types of log in.

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So that's something that you really need to think about at the very beginning of the project,

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how are people going to log in, how are we going to manage those use names and password

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sets or things.

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So down there users in, I found down the users in data world as a data set, not an enter or

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something, something else on my tenant.

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Exactly.

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There's what they are.

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So the people logging into a power page of site are our contacts in data.

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And the right management, I say, okay, I give this, I don't know, emails allow to log in

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in the portal, that's how it works.

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Yeah.

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So, so essentially your contact is associated with, there's another table in data verse that

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associates it with the, with the identity that they're using to log in.

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So they're using Facebook or, or LinkedIn or all, you know, again, all sorts of different

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types of authentication.

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So those are linked to the contact records so that, you know, the next time they log in

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with those same credentials, it knows which contact to use.

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And then there's an entire custom permissions model with it as well.

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So it doesn't use the data verse security model, although that is, that is changing a bit.

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They're trying to merge the two a little bit, but historically, there's a completely separate

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data model, or a permissions model called web roles and table permissions.

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So you associate the contact with web roles and then you create the table permissions.

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And so for those people familiar with data verse, the traditional data verse security is

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based on security roles and business units and who owns the records, whereas with power

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pages, it's not about who owns the records.

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It's how is the person who's logged in associated to those records?

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So you again, imagine the, the kind of customer self service help desk scenario when you log

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in, you can set up the person so that you can see all of the cases that the user is, or

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that that contact is related to, or maybe all the cases that the user's parent account is

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related to.

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So it's all about real relationships in data verse and not about security roles and not

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about record ownership.

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It's about those relationships.

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And okay, that's more data was a question, but it works also, you say, he can upload files

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so in platform, so it's, it's works also with unstructured data or is it me struct that they

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don't?

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Yeah, the files are, there's a table in data verse called, called web files when you

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install power pages.

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So they're, they're uploaded as, as files to, to that table in data verse and then exposed

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to the web via that way.

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The power pages does have a, I've see a very kind of basic content management system.

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So you can create the pages and create the content and add text, add images, upload PDFs,

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link to those, all sorts of things.

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So it does have a kind of a basic content management system, but definitely want to warn

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people if they're, if they're looking to replace an enterprise content management system,

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power pages is not, is not the solution.

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We do get people thinking that, oh, it's Microsoft's content management system.

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It's really much more about the data than, than the content.

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So if you're looking for a true content management system, power pages doesn't really do things

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like, you know, versioning or rollback or any of the things you'd expect from a real content

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management system.

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And how I start building, it's like, I have to have connected my dot data verse and then

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I have an editor or how, how is it work?

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Yeah, so there's a kind of a special maker portal.

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So you go to make dot power pages dot Microsoft dot com.

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What you can do is you install power pages into a data verse environment that installs a

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number of solutions and a bunch of data that go into that environment.

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And then you get the, what's called the power pages studio, which is the primary editor

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for, for our creating content, creating lists and forms.

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So for the listeners who are familiar with model driven apps or dynamics 365 customer

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service CRM types apps, the key or the kind of the core foundational feature of power pages

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is that you can take the views that you've created in a model driven app, we can create the

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forms that you've created in a model driven app and expose those on power pages.

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So what you're doing is you create those views, you create those, those forms and then you

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can expose those on, on power pages.

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So as you're, you create a web page and then you say, Hey, I want to add a list here or

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I want to add it to form here and then that's talking directly to the data that's in data

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verse.

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Great.

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And what does a typical use cases for for companies to start with the power page?

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Yeah, so other than the one we've talked about in terms of the kind of help desk creating

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cases, another big one would be like a partner portal.

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So you have an organization that, you know, maybe they're a, kind of a large, you know,

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manufacturer and they've got all these different, all these different retailers or people selling

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their stuff and they need to log in and they need to, you know, maybe they need to create

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their orders or maybe they need to, you know, manage their returns, those types of things.

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That's a very common use case.

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The other big one we see and we see the lot of us, honestly, in the, in the nonprofit sector

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would be just kind of a member portal.

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So people are logging in to, you know, they can sign up for their membership, they can renew

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their membership and then kind of access, you know, their membership benefits.

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So whether it's kind of accessing their, you know, their license card or maybe there's

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a, you know, a community forum that all the members participate in.

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But a lot of membership based organizations use it because they're using dynamics or they're

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using data verse as where they store all their member information.

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So this lets their members log in and, you know, update their profile and do that sort

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of thing.

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Yeah.

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And, yeah, there are some, I don't know, mistakes companies or people starting with, with

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file page, you say, okay, that's all all the, all the companies along all the people.

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Yeah.

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I mentioned the previously one is that thinking it's a, it's kind of a, a platform for building

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websites.

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I wouldn't, I wouldn't call them websites, it's really about those portals that, that, that

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talk to data verse.

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I would say, you know, my business does focus on, on, on power pages.

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And so we end up doing a lot of projects where partners may not have the experience in power

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pages and, and what's kind of, again, because we're dealing with external users.

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It's just, it's very different than many things in the power platform where primarily you're

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dealing with internal users.

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So there's just, there's different things that you need to consider.

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You know, there's a design element that, that doesn't really exist anywhere else in the

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power platform.

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So we do end up being brought in by a lot of partners to kind of supplement their, their

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knowledge because a lot of their, you know, existing power platform consultants wouldn't

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necessarily have the, the more traditional web development skills that power pages requires

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that, that aren't really needed in many other places in the power platform.

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So if you're, you know, a partner taking on your first power pages project, just make

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sure, you know, you're, you're getting into because it is very different than, the other

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pieces of the power platform.

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And how can companies, I don't know, communicate or, or work with the people in the platform

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that I think, okay, they're extra will use us.

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So there's low teams or all thumbs thing.

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Yeah.

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So a lot of that communication does happen via kind of messages back and forth in, in

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dataverse.

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So the ability to kind of have that, you know, asynchronous communication, if you think

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of a, you know, help desk ticket, you can, you know, post a comment and, and so you have

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those kind of comments back and forth between those people.

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That would be the most traditional way for, for people to, uh, to communicate via power

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pages.

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And, uh, it was also, I think, uh, Microsoft has for everything a co pilot, they have also

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a co pilot for, that, that helps me or, is it's, what, what product without a co pilot?

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Yeah.

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What do, what do you think?

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Of course they do.

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They actually have co pilots for, um, you know, the people making power pages.

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So they have, you know, a number of, you know, the co pilot to help you build one.

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And then of course on the front end, you can actually expose co pilot to the, the user

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users of the, of the portal.

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And so that's a big use case these days is if you, if you're building a co pilot and you

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want people outside your organization to be able to use it, uh, power pages is kind of

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the way that Microsoft is, is kind of pushing people to, uh, to expose their co pilots to

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external users.

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So that is definitely a, a use case that is getting a lot of traction from, from, uh, from

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the, from the world and something that Microsoft is really pushing these days is using

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power pages as that external, um, as that window for those external users to start using co pilot.

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And, um, yeah, I think when, when I build, uh, I don't know, a portal, um, I have integrated

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the, the co pilot and, um, then I also, um, can build, I don't know, interactive elements

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I think I think also, I don't know, I, um, I often work with, uh, logistics companies.

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So, um, so the people can send, see it sent out.

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It's, it's, I don't know, it's, it's broken or something.

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Uh, well, what, what happened, um, and then they, then, um, they can go in, in this portal

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and, uh, interact.

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Um, so then I, I think I have, I don't know, I, I use, uh, something, like Azure, uh, and,

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uh, the, the scam function and say, okay, the scam, to the set out and then the people

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can, can see it, uh, something like this, uh, yeah, definitely.

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Definitely.

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We, we do see, you know, within logistics, um, this is a, a super conversation because,

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often, you know, the people participating in that whole kind of, uh, supply chain, uh, often

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they may not be internal users, right?

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They may be contractors, they may be customers.

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So PowerPages is a great way to expose that data versus a great place to have that data.

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Um, and when, when you're using, um, you know, some, say, Azure services that make

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gather that data, maybe there's some IOT devices that are, are involved in the process,

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all that data can kind of flow back into the dataverse and then, uh, PowerPages is, is, is

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a natural choice to, uh, to expose that, that data to the, to the contractors or to the

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customers for sure.

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That's, that's awesome.

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Uh, and yeah, I read a little bit, uh, uh, uh, in your, see, we look at your site.

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So also you can use it for a lot of management systems.

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So I come from the education part.

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I work for, for long use of the education part.

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So, uh, so I really interesting, what, what, what does it do?

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Is the EC LMS, uh, what you have developed?

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You, you know, yes.

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So, so we built, uh, EC Learn, which is a learning management system built right on, uh,

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right into the Power Platform.

270
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,640
Uh, so it's built on dataverse.

271
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:07,440
Um, it, it's, um, the, the interface is a, um, either a model driven PowerApp or Power

272
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:08,440
Pages.

273
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,640
So we support both kind of internal users taking courses.

274
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:18,120
We, we support external users, um, using, um, or taking courses, uh, our tool includes

275
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:22,880
the course authored tools so you can build the courses right in, uh, right into dataverse.

276
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:28,760
You can also import, um, courses that are kind of the popular format score, um, tin, tin

277
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,160
can X, API, those types of formats you can import.

278
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,680
And again, it's all about having, um, those users take courses and then the data about,

279
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,080
you know, did they take it?

280
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,080
How long do they take it for?

281
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,080
What was their mark?

282
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,120
All that information is stored directly in dataverse.

283
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:47,880
So now if you want to, um, you know, automate reminders, you can use Power Automate if you

284
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,880
want to get your reporting, you can use Power BI.

285
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,840
So all of the data, all that learning management system data is in dataverse and that just

286
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,640
kind of opens up the whole Power Platform to your, to your learning data.

287
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:04,040
So, um, we built this after kind of seeing the need for, we had one of our, uh, you know,

288
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,040
kind of nonprofit membership organizations.

289
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,760
Um, they had a need to, to train their, to train their volunteers.

290
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,440
Essentially, they said, okay, great.

291
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,080
We'll just go find the, the learning management system that works with the Power Platform.

292
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,720
And, and we were pretty shocked to find that there just wasn't like, there's, there was

293
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:20,880
just nothing else out there.

294
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:25,280
So, so we decided to kind of build it ourselves and, uh, yeah, here we are.

295
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:26,280
Cool.

296
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,400
That's the best solutions I think.

297
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:39,560
Um, when I think, um, yeah, um, but when, when, uh, the PowerPage solution is live,

298
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:48,800
who is normally the owners, the idea or the business, uh, uh, who owns the, uh, uh, PowerPage.

299
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:49,800
Yeah.

300
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:50,800
So that's a great question.

301
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:56,600
I would say it's a bit of a, it's, it's a bit of a mix like, um, often it would be the,

302
00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,920
the, the business, um, sometimes, you know, the, the communications or the marketing side

303
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,520
is, it's pretty evolved because it's often the external face and they want to get it

304
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,720
designed. There's emails going out to external customers.

305
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:14,400
Um, I would say it's, it's a mix between, uh, yeah, sometime it is primarily owned by the

306
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,440
business, sometimes it's primarily owned, uh, by IT.

307
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:24,680
Um, you know, certainly we want, uh, the business to be the driver of, of what the site needs

308
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:25,680
to do.

309
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:30,120
Um, but sometimes, you know, it's coming from the, the, the IT budget.

310
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:34,080
So that's, uh, you know, they'll, they'll be important partners in it as well.

311
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:39,120
But, uh, yeah, I would say it's, it's, it's often a mix and, um, if you don't, if you don't

312
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:43,480
figure that out upfront, it can be, you know, you can sometimes have two people in the driver's

313
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,640
seat and, uh, that, that's not always good.

314
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:46,960
So you got to make sure you're clarifying.

315
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:47,960
Okay.

316
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,120
Who's running the show here?

317
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:55,440
Um, and how we can, I think, um, yeah, prevent from, I, I call it, I don't know, is

318
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,840
it the right road shadow portals from popping up across the department?

319
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:00,840
Yeah.

320
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:10,000
Um, you know, power pages, uh, because it's part of the power platform that, a lot of organizations

321
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,560
is kind of, you know, they, they default to think, okay, this is the Microsoft solution.

322
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,240
So often we are seeing power pages replacing those like, Oh, we, we spun up this website

323
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,160
last year just to do this thing.

324
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:28,160
So, so we can see power pages is the, um, you know, it, the, in addition to the kind of

325
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:34,400
the dataverse connection, um, you know, the, the big emphasis is on security, governance,

326
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,440
all those types of things.

327
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:40,160
So, so generally it's seen, you know, in a pretty good light by the IT departments.

328
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:47,000
Um, so, yeah, it is kind of often the, the, the go to technology that the, the IT departments

329
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,200
are saying, Hey, you know, we, you know, we, we trust Microsoft, everything we're else

330
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,600
we're doing is Microsoft.

331
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,360
Um, let's do that instead of something else.

332
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:58,160
Yeah, nice.

333
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:09,640
Um, I think a little bit, yeah, um, how, how simple is it for, to, to create a portal?

334
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:18,600
Is it, I think, uh, I have, I understand, uh, a dataverse model.

335
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,880
So, or, or, or can I, I don't know, drag and drop.

336
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,400
And I don't know like, like the model of share pouring pages and here I drag and drop

337
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,720
and I have all the department people inside and, and so on.

338
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,360
Um, I mean, if you ask the Microsoft marketing folks, they'd say it's super easy.

339
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:44,360
Um, I would say that, um, I get it is a unique skills that there, there are things that are

340
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:49,160
very specific to, to power pages.

341
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:56,720
In general, if someone comes from a dynamic CRM model driven power apps, uh, world, um, that's

342
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:02,920
going to be the, the most useful kind of background in addition to web development.

343
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,400
So again, that's kind of what makes it unique is that you need that combination of dynamic

344
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,440
CRM and, um, kind of more traditional web development.

345
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,120
Those are the, those are kind of the skillsets that you need.

346
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:21,720
Um, the, the editor is kind of a, a drag and drop type experience.

347
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,120
Microsoft has put a lot of work into building this new editor.

348
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:31,360
It doesn't do everything, um, that, that, that is possible with power pages.

349
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:35,280
Um, there's another interface that is a model driven app called the Power Pages Management

350
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,920
app, um, where you can kind of do everything.

351
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,560
Um, so there's lots of different editors you can use to do things.

352
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,280
Um, there's definitely, I would say a pretty steep learning curve to, to, to getting into

353
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,280
it.

354
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:54,920
Um, but, uh, I would say that, you know, the documentation has been, you know, I was in

355
00:24:54,920 --> 00:25:01,600
the last five years, uh, is, is, has been kind of gone from, uh, a bit, a bit, uh, a bit

356
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,280
sad to kind of outstanding.

357
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,200
So the documentation is, is, is there lots of community content out there.

358
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,280
Um, but, uh, yeah.

359
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:19,280
I would say that a lot of people, um, expected to be this kind of easy, no code tool and,

360
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,280
uh, in general, we find, hey, you're, you're probably going to need to do a little bit of,

361
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,080
uh, uh, customization.

362
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:31,800
So the, the reality is, is that, uh, um, you know, you probably do need some, some technical

363
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:37,000
skills to get in there and, and build the site that you're looking to build.

364
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,200
And this, uh, I think, yeah, I love this, this customization.

365
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,080
It's, uh, it's really, yeah.

366
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:53,200
Yeah, I think it's really cool about the, sometimes I think, uh, yeah, if I do too much,

367
00:25:53,200 --> 00:26:02,120
customization, I got these, uh, freggio, uh, custom apps, I, I, I think in my last company,

368
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:05,080
I worked, they built, and power apps.

369
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,920
So, yeah, that's more, so much customization.

370
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:16,960
What, what did, do you think it's, uh, yeah, I, I would say that, uh, I, I, I totally see

371
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,120
what you're, what you're saying, I would say the reality is with power pages.

372
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:26,040
Most of them do end up to be pretty heavily customized to, to achieve the, the business

373
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,040
needs.

374
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,600
Um, again, just because you're dealing with that external audiences, um, organizations

375
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,960
are tend to be a lot pickier about what they expect their external audiences to see

376
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,120
compared to internal.

377
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:40,720
So, if you're dealing with a modular, I would say, okay, the staff can, you know, doesn't

378
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,160
need to be absolutely perfect, but when you're talking to customers, it's like, no, this

379
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,840
is going to be exactly the way that we, we want it to be.

380
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:53,320
So often that will involve some, some pretty significant, uh, custom code to get, to get

381
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:54,920
it to be exactly what they want.

382
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,400
Um, so I would say a lot of organizations, you know, if you look at a portal, you know,

383
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,680
five years after it was started, the first phase, you can get it a lot done without

384
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:03,680
writing code.

385
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,920
But over the years, they say, oh, we want, but we really want this and we really want

386
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:07,920
this.

387
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:08,920
We really want this.

388
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:09,920
Yeah.

389
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,520
Actually, I think about the cross, you say it's, it's a perusal performance, and I have

390
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:24,200
by some, some, I could just, or are there other coast like for item or for compute or for,

391
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:30,680
for storage or it's really only for the users, uh, there are a lot in it.

392
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,400
It's, it's really only for the users who are logged in or those anonymous users.

393
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:41,000
Um, that does include some, like you do need dataverse, you do need, um, the, the power apps

394
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,880
or like, yeah, you need the dataverse environment.

395
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,400
Um, but those licenses do include some, some dataverse storage.

396
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,880
So, um, the, cause those entitlements do come in.

397
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:56,000
So, so I wouldn't say that there's kind of really any additional, um, licensing costs that,

398
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,280
that really does cover it.

399
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:58,360
There's no compute.

400
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:03,680
Those licensing costs, uh, covered the essentially that the power pagesite runs in on an

401
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:10,760
Azure, uh, web app and those licensing costs are included as part of those license users.

402
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,520
And then the more users you buy, the bigger server you get essentially.

403
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,520
So, so what we find, because Microsoft does not, does not do technical enforcement of those

404
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,520
licenses.

405
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:26,640
So let's say you buy 200 users, the 201st user who logs into the site, we'll be able to log

406
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:27,640
in the site there.

407
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,720
There won't even be a, there won't be a message.

408
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,440
There won't be like, the user will be able to log in.

409
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:38,760
Um, but if you have, if you buy 200 and you have 10,000 people using the site, um, the biggest

410
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,960
problem is going to be that it's going to be very slow because Microsoft has given you a

411
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,120
server for 200 users and not a server for 10,000 users.

412
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,320
Um, so you're going to see huge, huge performance things.

413
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,920
Now, to be clear, the technical enforcement, they're watching and so, you know, if one month

414
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,240
you go, you buy 200 and you get 250, you're probably not going to hear from them.

415
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,400
But if you buy 200 and every month, you're out of 1000, you're going to get any, you

416
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,000
email from Microsoft saying, hey, you need to bump this up.

417
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,000
But, but at no point will a user be like, not able to log in because of the, the licensing.

418
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:18,360
Yeah, but I, I only have also, I think these, these, yeah, governance job to look, okay,

419
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,200
this, this guy is outdated.

420
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,600
Uh, he's not going to company, uh, or just this account.

421
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,680
Uh, it's not, then I clean clean it up.

422
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,000
I think I have, it's, uh, yeah, the normal, normal job.

423
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:37,200
So that's a little bit, okay, but there's no true like, entry, or something I can automate

424
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:43,320
it with or can I say, okay, this guy was six months not in the platform, uh, sent him the

425
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,320
email.

426
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,040
And then when you don't come back, delete that account or how it works.

427
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,760
Um, and so with PowerPager, when it comes to licensing, they wouldn't count because if

428
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,000
they don't actually log in in a month, they won't count towards that month.

429
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,520
So we deal with, say membership organizations that are on some sort of, say, renewal cycle.

430
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,400
So maybe their abusers are only logging in once, once a year, um, they're only going to

431
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,840
count in, in, in that in the month where they log in.

432
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,760
So they're, you could certainly create some power automate flows that, you know, clean up

433
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,120
old accounts, but from a licensing perspective, if they don't log in that month, then they

434
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,440
don't, they don't count that month.

435
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,800
So there's no need to do that from a licensing perspective.

436
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,520
And then we have, I have a wonderful portal.

437
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,160
So what, what, what did you think is it?

438
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:35,480
What, what's harder, is it's built a portal or, uh, yeah, I think, uh, keep it relevant.

439
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,620
Uh, I would say probably building, like we, I think a lot of organization wants the portal

440
00:30:39,620 --> 00:30:40,720
gets up there.

441
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,920
They can be pretty stable for a long time.

442
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:48,080
We have, we have customers that have been, you know, seven, eight, nine, 10 years on, on

443
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,080
their portal.

444
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,200
And so once you, once you build it, um, it, it can be a pretty solid platform because Microsoft

445
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,600
is the one handling all the kind of, you know, the security updates and kind of the underneath

446
00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:59,600
the hood.

447
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,720
Um, for sure, in those situations, the portal, you know, the, the look and feel of it, it,

448
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,320
uh, can get a little bit dated, but in terms of functionality, it, it's going to be there.

449
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,040
Um, the product was, um, so just to give a little bit of history on the product.

450
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,880
So, so there was company called ADX Studio, uh, from here in Canada, that originally built

451
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,720
a tool called, uh, ADX Studio portals and Microsoft bought them in 2015.

452
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,240
And that's where, uh, power pages came from.

453
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:34,560
Um, now, uh, since that time, so when Microsoft kind of took over in 2015, there's really only

454
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,240
been kind of two major upgrades that have need to occur and you could do them at the same

455
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,240
time.

456
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,680
And so that was an upgrade to bootstrap, which was kind of a, the foundational UI framework.

457
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,840
And then there was a significant change.

458
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,560
There's what's called the standard data model.

459
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,480
Now there's an enhanced data model.

460
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:58,440
So again, if, if you started with power pages back in 2016, 2017, over the last 10 years

461
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,840
or so, there were really only those two major upgrades that you needed to do.

462
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,080
And again, you could kind of do them at the same time.

463
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,320
And even at this point, like those are still both relatively new.

464
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,520
A lot of organizations haven't even done those yet.

465
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,480
So you could be seven, eight, nine, 10 years into this platform and, and not need any

466
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,440
significant upgrades to, to, to what, to what you've built.

467
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,600
So I have to say yes, it's pretty stable from that, from that standpoint.

468
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,320
Yeah, cool.

469
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,320
Um, okay.

470
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:34,880
Um, then, um, yeah, I know your MVP so you cannot, uh, but I try, I try, I try it.

471
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,880
The question, um, is there anything where you say, okay, um, Microsoft here is something you,

472
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,360
you showed fixed tomorrow on, on, on pop pages.

473
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:46,360
Oh, yeah, there's lots.

474
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,680
And I'm not shy about, about sharing kind of what it is, I think they need to improve.

475
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:56,000
I would say like right now, um, you know, with this whole kind of AI revolution, everyone's

476
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,000
talking about vibe coding and, and using AI to create the code and just kind of put it on

477
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,800
a power, a page of site.

478
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,840
There's new features within power pages where you can use vibe coding or other coding tools

479
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:13,080
to, um, to, to essentially build a, what's called a single page application.

480
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:18,200
So a completely code based application and you could host it on power pages.

481
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,920
Um, the thing is that power pages is not, is not cheap.

482
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,940
So if you're going to write a bunch of custom code and then host it with power pages, um,

483
00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:31,160
the alternative to that would be to just host it in Azure yourself, which is going to be

484
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,160
cheaper.

485
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,000
You know, Microsoft is using Azure services to host your website.

486
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,400
They are charging you more than the underlying services are worth.

487
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,960
I mean, that's, that's the reality is that they are up charging on those things because

488
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,160
they got to pay for the development of the products.

489
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,480
So if you're going to be hosting your, your site using power pages, but you built it all

490
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,000
custom, um, I think there are reasons to do that, but I think Microsoft will have to look

491
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,440
at the licensing.

492
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,880
Uh, licensing has again, traditionally been a challenge with power pages.

493
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:05,960
Um, the licensing we have now, which is monthly active users used to essentially be, instead

494
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:12,080
of, um, paying for the cost right now that is for a month, it used to be for a day.

495
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,240
So one point they switched from daily to monthly and didn't change the price, which was amazing,

496
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:17,240
right?

497
00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:20,200
Like you're going from, if someone logs in three or four times in a month, you've, you've

498
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,240
cut your costs, you know, by, you know, a third or a quarter, that, that sort of thing.

499
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:28,640
So they've really adjusted that, but in this new kind of AI world where, where perhaps the

500
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,280
custom code is building the site for you, um, I think they're going to have to kind of look

501
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:33,280
at that.

502
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:38,280
Um, um, but beyond that, I think the big thing these days is just making it a little,

503
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:44,600
a little bit more modern, um, a lot of the experiences are still from ADX studio 10, 12 years ago.

504
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:50,480
Um, so while it is functional, uh, where I hope to see some, some, some improvements would

505
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,840
be just making the site feel a little bit more modern and not feel as dated as, as they can

506
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:55,840
sometimes feel.

507
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,680
Uh, so that's really cool, uh, really cool insights.

508
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,920
So, uh, I have, uh, yeah, so three hot takes.

509
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:10,280
So, yeah, power pages is just chat pod, excellent sharing, uh, with better branding, agree

510
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,280
or disagree?

511
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:18,720
Um, yeah, I, I, I think some people wish sometimes power pages was a little bit more like SharePoint

512
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:23,240
because if you're using it for things like document management, that there, there really

513
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:27,280
is nothing for a collaborative, like document collaboration like there is in SharePoint.

514
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,400
So, um, if you look at the documentation, you'll say, yes, there's an integration between

515
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,520
power pages and SharePoint and people expect that to be all of the capabilities of SharePoint

516
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:37,520
and it really isn't.

517
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,000
It's like you can download the files, you can upload the SharePoint, but all that collaboration

518
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,000
stuff just not existed power pages so people can be, can be disappointed.

519
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,960
So I would say, you know, as someone who comes from a CRM background, we can be a little

520
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:55,240
bit, uh, um, you know, a little bit snooty about, hey, you should, your data should be in

521
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,000
dataverse, not in SharePoint.

522
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,280
So obviously, power pages is the way to expose that data that's in dataverse.

523
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:07,040
I do believe that the, you know, the data is better off in dataverse so you could do that.

524
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,520
And yeah, I would say you could probably do a little bit better of a brand new job.

525
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:17,520
So, yeah, it's probably true, but, um, yeah, there's some great capabilities of SharePoint

526
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,640
that, that, that power pages can't just can't touch to get around that kind of document

527
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,920
collaboration stuff is, is really where SharePoint shines.

528
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:25,920
Okay.

529
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:32,880
And then the next one, if you, uh, need complex logic, uh, you should be using power pages,

530
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,480
true or failed?

531
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,840
Powerp, like the thing I, you know, as a pro developer background, the thing I love about

532
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,680
Powerpages is that it does, um, you know, there's kind of this no cliffs so, um, you can do

533
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,480
lots of low code, no code stuff, but you can write complete custom stuff.

534
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,520
So Powerp, yeah, there's very little that you can't do with Powerpages.

535
00:36:53,520 --> 00:37:00,240
So, yeah, if you have custom, custom requirements, complex requirements, um, Powerpages is, uh,

536
00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:04,560
is very capable of supporting those types of things for sure.

537
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:05,560
Okay.

538
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:16,960
And, uh, then the last one is, uh, the most powerful page projects fail off, oh, that's a

539
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,960
great question.

540
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,480
Um, I would say what we see, because we, again, we do get brought in quite a few times,

541
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,960
when the project isn't going well and they, you know, they, because of all the content,

542
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,920
we produce, they say, oh, these guys know the power pages.

543
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,040
Let's, let's bring them in.

544
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:40,560
Um, I would say, um, most project, Powerpages projects fail, um, when the expectations or,

545
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,040
or what was understood from, from kind of reading the documentation or reading the marketing

546
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,440
material, um, wasn't kind of validator, wasn't kind of completely understood.

547
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:54,480
And so that there were certain, um, expectations set that just couldn't be met.

548
00:37:54,480 --> 00:38:01,440
Um, I would say also when someone comes in and if they start from getting a, you know, if

549
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,520
they start from Figma, if they start from getting a, a designer to design the site without

550
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:11,960
looking at how the tools are, um, uh, support those types of things, um, there's just so many

551
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,920
ways to accomplish the same business requirements.

552
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,400
Um, and if you have someone who doesn't know Powerpages designed something, um, and

553
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,160
then hand it off to the Powerpages team, they'll look out and say, well, the only way to accomplish

554
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,280
this is with, with custom code.

555
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,280
And so if your entire site ends up being custom code, that may not be the best fit for Powerpages.

556
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,800
So any, any project that starts with a, you know, a, a user experience designer that doesn't

557
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,000
know Powerpages and then hands it off to be built, um, you're probably getting enough

558
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,800
to spend a lot more on custom code than was intended.

559
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:43,800
Really?

560
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,840
Yeah, more than, as well as a thing we have a lot of, uh,

561
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,960
compressed knowledge in here.

562
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:58,840
Um, so then, uh, yeah, when, when the people are interesting in, in get help or, uh, build

563
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,840
with you, uh, Powerpages, how can they contact you or get it that?

564
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,280
Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn so you can, you know, happy to connect with anyone on LinkedIn.

565
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,800
Uh, we've got our site, Engagercode.com, uh, on there you can find links to our YouTube

566
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,600
channel where we have, um, uh, we do a weekly tip.

567
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:18,760
We do a blog on there as well.

568
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,000
I also do a monthly, uh, community call.

569
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,120
So that's just, uh, you know, one hour session where we go through the latest Powerpages news,

570
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,200
um, and we also, you know, kind of pick one particular topic to deep guys, kind of like,

571
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,240
oh, you know, if you go to a conference, do one of those types of sessions, I do one of

572
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:34,400
those every month completely free of charge.

573
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,920
Um, and if they're looking for something a little bit extra in terms of training, we do

574
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:43,640
have a, a pay training course, um, that has, uh, a bunch of content you can kind of

575
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,120
go through the course as well as kind of monthly office hours with myself if you have any questions.

576
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,800
So, um, yeah, if you're looking to get into Powerpages, um, I would say, yeah, check out all

577
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,360
of our, our community content.

578
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,240
Um, I, I hope it's a help.

579
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:01,920
Yeah, I think, uh, also the people who find all the links in your speaker profile, um,

580
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,760
um, um, 65, uh, them.

581
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:11,120
And so, yeah, I think, uh, the last words, uh, for for you to, uh, do, do, do the people.

582
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:16,680
Yeah, I would say, um, you know, Powerpages, the, the use is just, it's skyrocketing.

583
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:21,840
It's, it's a thing that, you know, I really think that every implementation of data

584
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,640
verse could probably benefit from a Powerpages site.

585
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,400
You know, what organization doesn't have external people that they're working with.

586
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:34,560
Um, but I would also warn people, Powerpages is not, is not the best thing in every situation.

587
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,680
So just because it's the tool for Microsoft, make sure you're understanding, uh, what

588
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,240
it is you're trying to do, um, because you have sometimes that there are other tools, there

589
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:44,600
are other options.

590
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:49,480
So, you know, consider Powerpages, but, uh, make sure you consider all your options as well.

591
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:57,160
Yeah, that's a, thank you for staying here and, uh, yeah, uh, have a great, great day and

592
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,160
yeah, thanks so much.

593
00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:59,680
Yeah, thanks so much for inviting me.

594
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:00,360
This was a lot of fun.

595
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:08,480
[BLANK_AUDIO]

Mirko Peters

Founder of m365.fm, m365.show and m365con.net

Mirko Peters is a Microsoft 365 expert, content creator, and founder of m365.fm, a platform dedicated to sharing practical insights on modern workplace technologies. His work focuses on Microsoft 365 governance, security, collaboration, and real-world implementation strategies.

Through his podcast and written content, Mirko provides hands-on guidance for IT professionals, architects, and business leaders navigating the complexities of Microsoft 365. He is known for translating complex topics into clear, actionable advice, often highlighting common mistakes and overlooked risks in real-world environments.

With a strong emphasis on community contribution and knowledge sharing, Mirko is actively building a platform that connects experts, shares experiences, and helps organizations get the most out of their Microsoft 365 investments.

Nicholas Hayduk

President, Software Engineer

Nicholas Hayduk is a Microsoft Business Applications MVP, Solution Architect and Developer, and a licensed Professional Engineer. In 2015, he founded Engineered Code Consulting Inc., a professional services firm with a specialization in Power Pages (aka Power Apps Portals/Dynamics 365 Portal/Adxstudio Portals) implementations for Microsoft Dynamics CRM/365 and the Power Platform.
Nick has worked the Power Pages platform since its infancy, first as a developer with Adxstudio and now backed with a Power Pages-focused development team of his own. With dozens of Power Pages implementations under his belt, Nick’s unique blend of technical CRM expertise and real-world business experience is trusted by Microsoft, Microsoft Power Platform Partners, and end-organizations alike.

How to share business data with users outside of your organization with Nicholas Hayduk [MVP]