June 29, 2026

Planner Beyond Tasks: Building Enterprise Project & Portfolio Management with Erik van Hurck [MVP]

In this episode of the M365 FM Podcast, Mirko Peters is joined by Microsoft MVP Erik van Hurck to explore how Microsoft Planner is evolving from a simple task management tool into a powerful enterprise Project and Portfolio Management (PPM) platform.

Erik shares how organizations can move beyond personal to-do lists and team task boards to manage complex projects, portfolios, resources, and strategic initiatives using the Microsoft ecosystem. The conversation covers the latest capabilities in Microsoft Planner Premium, portfolio management, roadmap planning, resource allocation, reporting, and how Planner integrates with Microsoft Teams, Power Platform, and Microsoft 365.

The episode also discusses when Planner is the right choice compared to traditional project management tools, how organizations can scale from small teams to enterprise PMOs, and why governance and standardized processes are essential for long-term success. Erik provides practical advice for project managers, IT leaders, and business decision-makers looking to modernize project delivery without introducing unnecessary complexity.

Whether you're already using Microsoft Planner or evaluating Microsoft's project management ecosystem, this episode offers valuable insights into building a scalable, collaborative, and future-ready Project Portfolio Management strategy while taking advantage of the latest innovations across Microsoft 365.

You can make enterprise project management simple for everyone on your team. With the right approach and practical tools, you will see real results. Microsoft Planner helps organizations simplify enterprise project management by making teamwork easier and more efficient. Many companies have seen these improvements:

Teams spend less time on repetitive tasks and more time on important work.
Employees focus on high-value projects, which leads to better revenue.
Companies finish major initiatives faster and deliver value sooner.

When you align your projects with your organization’s goals, you drive success. Any team can achieve strong results with the right mindset and tools.

Key Takeaways

Enterprise project management (EPM) aligns all projects with your organization's goals, driving success and improving communication.
Using Microsoft Planner simplifies project management by organizing tasks, enhancing collaboration, and providing real-time visibility.
Standardized processes in EPM lead to consistent project delivery, reducing errors and improving efficiency across teams.
Effective communication is crucial; create open channels for updates and feedback to avoid misunderstandings and missed deadlines.
Invest in training to build your team's skills in EPM tools, ensuring everyone feels confident and engaged in their roles.
Regularly assess your organization's needs to choose the right tools and establish a governance framework for decision-making.
Embrace simplicity in EPM processes; clear and straightforward workflows help teams stay focused and productive.
Monitor project performance with clear metrics to identify areas for improvement and celebrate successes to motivate your team.

Enterprise Project Management Essentials

What Is Enterprise Project Management?

You can think of enterprise project management as a way to manage all projects across your organization with a single, unified approach. EPM helps you keep every project connected to your company’s goals. It gives you the tools to plan, track, and deliver results at scale. EPM is not just about managing one project at a time. It brings together many projects, programs, and portfolios under one strategy.

Here are the core components that define enterprise project management in large organizations:

Component	Description
Project Portfolio Management	Evaluates, prioritizes, and selects the optimal mix of projects based on strategic goals, resource capacity, risk factors, and financial considerations.
Enterprise Project Governance	Outlines authority, roles, responsibilities, and decision-making processes for managing projects, ensuring accountability and effective oversight.
Project Management Office (PMO)	Centralized function that defines and maintains the enterprise project management framework, providing guidance and monitoring adherence to methodologies.
Resource Management	Enables optimal allocation and utilization of resources across projects based on requirements, schedules, and priorities.
Risk Management	Systematic processes for identifying, analyzing, and mitigating risks that could impact projects across the enterprise.
Project Visibility and Reporting	Provides real-time visibility into project status, health, and performance metrics through standardized reporting and dashboards.
Project Integration and Collaboration	Ensures effective management of interdependencies between projects and facilitates coordination among cross-functional teams.

EPM uses these components to help you manage complexity and drive success.

Why EPM Matters

EPM matters because it aligns every project with your organization’s strategy. When you use enterprise project management, you make sure that teams work toward shared goals. You also improve communication and break down silos. EPM helps you measure progress and adapt quickly when priorities change.

Tip: EPM creates accountability at every level, so everyone knows their role and stays focused on what matters most.

You can see the steps that connect EPM to business strategy:

Step	Description
1	Establish clear strategic priorities to guide decision-making and ensure teams work towards shared goals.
2	Communicate strategy clearly to ensure understanding and alignment across the organization.
3	Foster cross-functional collaboration to eliminate silos and enhance efficiency.
4	Measure progress and adapt quickly to shifting priorities and market conditions.
5	Ensure accountability at all levels to maintain focus on strategic initiatives.

The project management office plays a key role in EPM. It acts as a central hub for planning, guidance, and support. The project management office helps you keep projects on track and aligned with your company’s vision. Many organizations have seen better results after creating an EPM framework. For example, a healthcare insurance company improved collaboration and achieved faster execution by using EPM and structured governance.

EPM vs. Traditional Project Management

You may wonder how EPM differs from traditional project management. Traditional project management usually focuses on one project at a time. It often follows a step-by-step process, where each phase must finish before the next begins. EPM, on the other hand, manages many projects together and connects them to your organization’s strategy.

Here are some key differences:

Traditional project management uses a sequential process for each project.
EPM manages multiple projects, programs, and portfolios at once.
Traditional methods emphasize upfront planning and documentation.
EPM uses flexible cycles and continuous collaboration.
EPM relies on tools and systems that give you real-time visibility and reporting.

EPM helps you respond to change, use resources wisely, and deliver value across your organization.

Overcoming EPM Challenges

Common Obstacles

When you start using epm, you may face several challenges. These obstacles can slow down progress and make it harder to reach your goals. Here are some of the most common issues organizations encounter:

Cultural Resistance: Teams often push back against new ways of working. You need strong change management to help everyone adjust.
Integration Complexity: Bringing different projects together under one epm system takes careful planning and expert guidance.
Skill Gaps: Your team may need training to build the skills required for successful epm.
Adequate Funding: Projects need enough financial resources to succeed.
Qualified Professionals: You must have the right people in place or invest in training.
Technological Support: Reliable software tools are essential for managing large project portfolios.

Complexity

Complexity can make epm feel overwhelming. You might struggle to keep track of many moving parts. Organizations often measure the impact of complexity by looking at long-term outcomes, connecting project results to real business value, and considering sustainability.

Method	Description
Track long-term outcomes	Review completed projects to see if they still benefit your business or customers.
Connect impact to value	Link project metrics to real improvements, such as efficiency or revenue gains.
Assess sustainability impacts	Include environmental and long-term effects in your project analysis.

Communication Gaps

Poor communication can lead to misunderstandings and missed deadlines. In epm, you need clear channels for sharing updates and feedback. When teams do not communicate well, projects can drift off course.

Lack of Standardization

Without standard processes, each team may work differently. This makes it hard to compare results or share resources. Standardization in epm helps you create repeatable workflows and ensures everyone follows best practices.

Why Simplicity Is Key

Team Adoption

Simplicity encourages your team to embrace epm. When you use easy-to-understand tools and processes, people feel more confident and engaged. Case studies show that simplifying epm leads to real-time adaptability, better collaboration, and significant time savings. Teams can respond quickly to changes, spot issues early, and focus on critical work.

Benefit	Description
Real-time adaptability	Teams adjust quickly to new demands.
Seamless collaboration	Cross-functional teams work together smoothly.
Enhanced visibility	Everyone sees project status and can detect issues early.
Improved decision-making	Integrated reporting supports smarter choices.

Project Success

Simple processes in epm lead to higher project success rates. Research shows that focusing on process management and improvement can boost success by over 30%. When you keep things clear and straightforward, you help your team deliver better results. Simplicity also supports risk mitigation, making it easier to spot and address problems before they grow.

Tip: Choose user-friendly tools and standardized workflows to make epm work for everyone. This approach helps you align projects with your organization’s goals and achieve lasting success.

Principles for Simplifying EPM

Clarity in Processes

You need clear processes to make epm work for your team. When you define each step, everyone knows what to do and when to do it. This reduces confusion and keeps projects on track. Start by setting a clear project scope. Decide what the project will include and what it will not. This helps you avoid scope creep and keeps your team focused.

Set specific objectives and measurable goals. When you know what success looks like, you can track progress and celebrate achievements. Assign roles and make sure everyone understands their responsibilities. This prevents delays and confusion.

Break projects into smaller phases with clear milestones and deliverables. This approach helps you manage risks and build momentum. Always choose simplicity over complexity. Simple plans are easier to follow and adjust.

Here are some best practices for clarity in epm:

Best Practice	Description
Use Standardized Forms	Avoid redundancy by using common tables and review them regularly to keep processes clear.
Use Portfolios	Compare new demands with ongoing projects for a complete view of project management.

Tip: Keep your project plans easy to understand. Simple processes help your team stay focused and productive.

Effective Communication

Strong communication is the backbone of successful epm. You should create open channels for sharing updates, feedback, and concerns. When everyone stays informed, you avoid misunderstandings and missed deadlines.

Hold regular meetings to discuss progress and address issues. Use clear language in all project documents and updates. Encourage team members to ask questions and share ideas. This builds trust and keeps everyone engaged.

You can use digital tools to support communication. For example, Microsoft Planner lets you share updates, assign tasks, and track progress in real time. This keeps your team connected, even if they work in different locations.

Note: Good communication in epm helps you spot problems early and solve them before they grow.

Standardized Workflows

Standardized workflows are essential for epm. They help you deliver projects consistently and align your work with business goals. When everyone follows the same process, you create a reliable system that supports success.

Standardized workflows ensure consistent project delivery across your organization.
They enhance accountability by outlining tasks, deadlines, and responsibilities.
Teams collaborate better because everyone follows the same steps.
You gain visibility into project status, making it easier to spot bottlenecks and delays.
Mistakes decrease because standardized steps and checkpoints keep tasks from being missed.
You can duplicate workflows across departments, making it easier to scale operations.
Strong internal processes lead to smoother interactions with clients and build their confidence.

When you use standardized workflows in epm, you make it easier for your team to work together and deliver results. You also create a foundation for continuous improvement.

Callout: Standardized workflows in epm help you deliver projects on time, reduce errors, and build trust with your clients.

User-Friendly Tools

You need user-friendly tools to make enterprise project management simple for everyone. These tools help you and your team stay organized, communicate clearly, and complete work on time. When you choose the right tools, you remove barriers that slow down projects. You also make it easier for everyone to participate, no matter their experience level.

User-friendly project management tools share common features. These features support your team and help you reach your goals. The table below shows some of the most important features and their benefits:

Feature	Description
Scheduling	Lets you book meetings and share schedules, so everyone knows what to expect.
Accounting	Tracks expenses and shows return on investment, helping you manage budgets.
Process management	Monitors and improves business processes, making sure everyone follows the right steps.
Timesheet capture and tracking	Allows team members to record time spent on tasks, giving you insight into resource use.
Project roadmaps and templates	Provides ready-made plans that turn strategies into action, making it easy to track progress.

You benefit from tools that centralize project management. These tools bring all your projects together in one place. You can align your work with your company’s strategic goals. You also gain real-time visibility across all your portfolios. This means you can see project data as it happens and make better decisions.

Tip: Choose tools that make it easy to share updates and work together. Good tools help you bridge communication gaps and keep everyone on the same page.

User-friendly tools also support collaboration. They let you assign tasks, share files, and give feedback quickly. You can connect with team members in different departments or locations. This improves project progress and helps you solve problems faster.

Here are some key benefits you get from user-friendly project management tools:

Unified communication channels keep everyone informed.
Proactive risk management helps you spot and address issues early.
Advanced reporting gives you the data you need for smart decisions.

You should look for tools that offer templates and roadmaps. Templates save you time and ensure consistency. Roadmaps help you plan ahead and allocate resources wisely. When you use these features, you can transform strategies into clear workflows.

Timesheet tracking is another helpful feature. It lets you see how your team spends time on each task. This helps you manage workloads and improve efficiency. Accounting features give you control over budgets and spending, so you can show value to management.

Note: The best tools are easy to use and require little training. When your team feels comfortable with the tools, they are more likely to use them every day.

EPM Simplification Steps

Assess Needs

You should start your epm journey by understanding what your organization truly needs. This step helps you avoid wasted effort and ensures your approach fits your goals. Begin by setting up a governance framework. This framework defines who makes decisions and how you select projects. Clear rules help everyone know their role.

Next, outline the processes you want to use. Choose platforms that support coordination across your entire organization. You need tools that let teams work together easily. Build a strong EPMO team. Make sure your team has the right skills to guide and support your projects.

You also need to measure performance. Set clear metrics and review them often. This helps you see what works and where you can improve. When you follow these steps, you create a solid foundation for epm.

Steps to Assess Needs:

Establish governance frameworks for decision-making and project selection.
Define processes and select platforms for organization-wide coordination.
Build a capable EPMO team with the right skills.
Measure and optimize performance with clear metrics and regular reviews.

Tip: Take time to assess your needs before you choose tools or set up workflows. This step saves time and resources in the long run.

Choose the Right Tools

Selecting the right tools is a key part of successful epm. You want tools that help you manage projects, share information, and track progress. Look for solutions that support centralized project portfolio management. This feature helps you align projects with your company’s strategy.

You also need tools that make resource management easy. Good tools let you plan capacity and assign work based on team strengths. Collaboration features are important. Your teams should be able to share updates and work together, even if they are in different locations.

Risk management is another must-have. The right tools help you spot problems early and take action. Advanced reporting and analytics give you the data you need for smart decisions. Make sure your tools can grow with your organization. Scalability and flexibility are important as your needs change.

Microsoft Planner stands out as a user-friendly tool for epm. When you integrate it with Power Platform, you unlock even more features. You can automate tasks, track resources, and create custom reports. This combination gives you a powerful system for enterprise project management.

Criteria for Choosing Tools:

Centralized project portfolio management for strategic alignment
Optimized resource management and capacity planning
Enhanced collaboration and cross-functional coordination
Proactive risk management across project portfolios
Advanced reporting and data analytics for informed decision-making
Scalability and flexibility for growing organizations

Note: Choose tools that work well together. Integration with Microsoft 365 and Power Platform helps you get the most from your epm system.

Set Up Workflows

Setting up workflows is the next step in making epm simple and effective. Workflows show your team how to move from one task to the next. Start by using digital tools to organize tasks. Automation helps you handle routine work, so your team can focus on what matters most.

Centralize all project information on one platform. This makes it easy for everyone to find what they need. You can customize workflows to fit different types of projects. This flexibility helps your system grow as your team grows.

You should also automate end-to-end processes. Automation connects teams and keeps work moving smoothly. Use advanced analytics and reporting to track performance in real time. This lets you spot issues early and make quick changes.

Security and compliance are important. Make sure your workflows protect data and meet all rules. Microsoft Planner, combined with Power Platform, supports these needs. You can automate tasks, centralize information, and keep your data safe.

Key Actions for Setting Up Workflows:

Use digital tools to organize and automate routine tasks.
Centralize project information for easy access.
Customize workflows for different project types.
Automate end-to-end processes for seamless teamwork.
Track performance with advanced analytics and reporting.
Ensure security and compliance in every workflow.

Callout: Well-designed workflows make epm easier for everyone. They help your team stay organized, work faster, and deliver better results.

Train Teams

You need to train your teams to make enterprise project management simple and effective. Training helps everyone understand new processes and tools. When you invest in training, you build confidence and improve project outcomes.

Start by identifying the skills your team needs. You can use a skills assessment to find gaps. Focus on project management basics, digital tools, and collaboration techniques. Make sure everyone knows how to use Microsoft Planner and Power Platform. These tools offer user-friendly features that make learning easier.

You should create a training plan that fits your team’s schedule. Use short sessions and hands-on practice. People learn best when they can try new tools in real situations. Encourage your team to ask questions and share feedback. This builds trust and helps you spot areas for improvement.

Offer different types of training. You can use workshops, online courses, and one-on-one coaching. Mix formal lessons with informal support. Peer mentoring works well for sharing tips and solving problems together.

Tip: Use Microsoft Planner to organize training sessions. Assign tasks, track progress, and share resources in one place.

You can measure training success by looking at adoption rates and project outcomes. When your team uses new tools and follows workflows, you see better results. Monitor how quickly people adapt and how well they collaborate.

Here are some best practices for training teams in EPM:

Best Practice	Description
Skills Assessment	Identify gaps and target training to meet project needs.
Hands-On Learning	Use real projects to practice new skills and build confidence.
Continuous Support	Provide ongoing help through coaching, mentoring, and feedback.
Clear Communication	Explain goals, expectations, and benefits of EPM simplification.
Use of Digital Tools	Leverage Microsoft Planner and Power Platform for interactive and accessible training.

You should celebrate milestones and recognize progress. Positive feedback motivates your team and encourages ongoing learning. When you train your teams well, you create a culture of improvement and make enterprise project management simple for everyone.

Microsoft Planner for Enterprise Project Management

Planner Overview

You want a tool that makes managing projects easy for everyone. Microsoft Planner gives you a simple way to organize tasks, assign work, and track progress. You can use it to manage small projects or large programs across your organization. The interface feels familiar if you have used other Microsoft 365 apps. You can quickly create plans, add tasks, and set deadlines.

Planner helps your team see what needs to be done. You can use different views, such as lists, grids, or Kanban boards, to match your workflow. Each task can include files, comments, and checklists. This keeps all project information in one place. You do not need to switch between different tools to find updates or share feedback.

Here are some key features that support your project management needs:

Feature	Description
Integration with Microsoft 365	Seamless integration with other Microsoft tools enhances productivity and collaboration.
Task Visualization	Offers various views like lists, grids, and Kanban for effective task management.
Collaboration Tools	Allows file attachments and comments within tasks for team collaboration.
Custom Templates	Enables standardization of workflows, reducing planning friction and improving comparability.
Enterprise-grade Security	Ensures data protection and compliance with features like Information Barriers and MIP labels.
AI Capabilities	Automates tasks and boosts productivity through intelligent features.

Tip: Use custom templates to standardize your workflows. This makes it easier to compare projects and keep everyone on the same page.

Integration with Power Platform

You can make Microsoft Planner even more powerful by connecting it with the Power Platform. This integration lets you automate tasks, create custom reports, and manage complex projects with ease. You do not need advanced technical skills to get started. The tools work together to help you save time and reduce manual work.

The Power Platform includes Power Automate, Power BI, and Dataverse. Power Automate helps you set up flows that handle routine tasks automatically. For example, you can create a flow that sends reminders when deadlines approach. Power BI lets you build dashboards and reports that show project status in real time. Dataverse stores your project data securely and makes it easy to share information across teams.

Here is how Planner and Power Platform work together:

Feature	Description
Project Manager Agent	Automates project management tasks, from plan creation to task execution.
Integration with Power BI	Allows customization of reports and creation of new reports.
Use of Power Automate	Enables complex business intelligence reporting and additional dashboards.

Note: When you connect Planner with Power Platform, you gain deeper insights and more control over your projects.

Advanced Features for EPM

Microsoft Planner supports advanced features that help you manage enterprise project management at scale. You can use AI-powered tools to automate repetitive work. This frees up your team to focus on high-value tasks. Planner’s security features protect your data and help you meet compliance requirements.

You can attach files, add comments, and track changes within each task. This makes collaboration easy, even for large teams. Custom templates let you create repeatable processes. You can use these templates to launch new projects quickly and ensure consistency across your organization.

Planner also works well with other Microsoft 365 apps. You can link tasks to Outlook, Teams, and SharePoint. This keeps everyone connected and informed. The integration with Power BI gives you access to advanced analytics. You can monitor project health, spot risks early, and make better decisions.

Callout: Microsoft Planner gives you the flexibility to manage projects, programs, and portfolios—all in one place. You can adapt it to fit your team’s needs and scale as your organization grows.

With these features, you can simplify enterprise project management and achieve better results. Your team stays organized, informed, and ready to deliver on your company’s goals.

Security and Governance

You need strong security and governance to protect your projects and keep your organization safe. Microsoft Planner gives you tools that help you control access, manage information, and follow company rules. Security features make sure only the right people see your plans and tasks. Governance features help you set clear policies and keep your projects organized.

When you use Microsoft Planner, you can trust that your data stays safe. You can prevent unwanted sharing and keep sensitive information private. You also get tools that help you follow legal and company requirements. These features support your team and help you build trust with clients and partners.

Here are some important security and governance features in Microsoft Planner:

Feature	Description
Information Barriers (IB)	Prevents users in restricted segments from discovering or adding users from those segments when sharing plans.
Microsoft Information Protection	Recognizes MIP labels for plan and task contents, enforcing actions like blocking copy/print/export and applying encryption.

Information Barriers help you control who can see and join your plans. You can set up segments in your organization. Users in one segment cannot add or view users from another segment. This keeps your projects private and stops information from spreading where it should not go.

Microsoft Information Protection lets you label your plans and tasks. You can block copying, printing, or exporting sensitive information. You can also apply encryption to protect your data. These labels help you follow company rules and keep your information safe.

Tip: Use security labels and barriers to protect your projects. This helps you meet compliance standards and keeps your team focused on their work.

You can set up policies that match your company’s needs. You decide who can create plans, who can share tasks, and who can see project details. You also get audit logs and reports that show who accessed your projects and when. These tools help you spot problems early and fix them quickly.

Security and governance in Microsoft Planner give you peace of mind. You know your data is safe, and you can focus on delivering results. You can build a strong foundation for enterprise project management and support your team every step of the way.

Projects, Programs, and Portfolios

Key Differences

You need to understand the differences between projects, programs, and portfolios to manage your work effectively. Each layer has a unique purpose and focus. The table below shows how they compare in an enterprise setting:

Aspect	Project Management	Program Management	Project Portfolio Management
Definition	A temporary initiative with a defined scope, timeline, and deliverables.	A coordinated group of related projects managed together for added benefits.	A collection of projects and programs managed to achieve strategic business goals.
Primary Focus	Delivering a unique outcome within time, budget, and scope.	Achieving benefits and efficiencies by aligning multiple projects.	Ensuring all projects and programs align with long-term organizational strategy.
Timeframe	Short-term, with a clear start and finish.	Mid- to long-term, evolving as projects progress.	Continuous and ongoing.
Scope	Narrow—focused on a single project’s success.	Broader—manages interrelated projects to deliver combined outcomes.	Broadest—manages all projects and programs under an organization’s umbrella.
Management Level	Tactical: handled by project managers.	Tactical + Strategic: managed by program managers coordinating multiple projects.	Strategic: overseen by portfolio managers and executives.
Success Criteria	Completion on time, within budget, and at the desired quality.	Delivery of combined benefits, improved coordination, and reduced risks across projects.	Maximizing ROI, strategic alignment, and business value creation.

Tip: Knowing these differences helps you choose the right approach for each layer of your organization.

Management Strategies

You need strong strategies to manage each layer successfully. The Project Management Office (PMO) sets direction and maintains standards for your teams. The PMO ensures everyone follows best practices. For larger organizations, the Enterprise Project Management Office (EPMO) aligns all activities with your company’s strategic goals. The EPMO involves managers in planning and helps increase project success rates.

The PMO guides project managers and supports consistent delivery.
The EPMO connects project portfolio activities to business strategy.
Both offices help you improve coordination and reduce risks across your project portfolio.

Note: When you use these strategies, you create a clear path from individual projects to your organization’s big-picture goals.

Adapting Tools for Each Layer

You can adapt enterprise project management tools to fit projects, programs, and portfolios. Centralized project portfolio systems bring all your work into one place. This makes it easier to align every project with your company’s strategy. Optimized resource management lets you assign people and tools where they are needed most. Enhanced collaboration features help teams work together, even across departments.

Centralized project portfolio management gives you a single view of all work.
Optimized resource management supports dynamic allocation based on real-time needs.
Enhanced collaboration bridges communication gaps and speeds up progress.
Proactive risk management helps you spot and fix problems early across your project portfolio.
Advanced reporting provides real-time dashboards and analytics for better decisions.
Scalability and flexibility let your system grow as your organization grows.

Callout: Adapting your tools for each layer ensures your project portfolio stays aligned with your business goals and delivers maximum value.

When you use the right strategies and tools, you can manage every project portfolio with confidence. You help your teams deliver results, support your company’s vision, and drive long-term success.

Real-World EPM Success

Large Organization Case

You can see the impact of enterprise project management when you look at large organizations. Many companies have adopted EPM to handle complex projects and align their work with business goals. When you use EPM, you help your teams work together and deliver better results. The table below shows some of the main benefits that large organizations have reported after implementing EPM:

Benefit	Description
Improved productivity	EPM enhances the efficiency of project execution.
Reduced risk	EPM helps in identifying and mitigating potential risks.
Higher-quality output	EPM leads to better quality in deliverables.
Full use of team skills	EPM ensures that all team members' skills are utilized.
Greater creativity	EPM fosters an environment for innovative solutions.
Enhanced reliability of delivery	EPM improves the consistency of project delivery.
Higher customer satisfaction	EPM contributes to better alignment with customer needs.

You can use these benefits as a guide when you set up EPM in your own organization. Many large companies report that EPM helps them finish projects on time and meet customer expectations.

Small Business Example

You do not need to run a large company to see the value of EPM. Small businesses also benefit from a simple and unified approach. For example, a small marketing agency wanted to improve how it managed client campaigns. The team started using Microsoft Planner to organize tasks, assign responsibilities, and track deadlines. Each team member could see what needed to be done and when. The agency used templates to standardize its process for every new client.

After a few months, the agency noticed several improvements. Projects moved faster, and team members felt more confident in their roles. The agency delivered higher-quality work and received positive feedback from clients. You can achieve similar results by adopting EPM principles and using user-friendly tools.

Lessons Learned

You can learn important lessons from organizations that have adopted EPM:

Leadership is Crucial: Strong leaders help teams accept change and guide them through new processes.
Unified Approach: A single, mission-based plan and an empowered team lead to better outcomes.
Change Management: Every project involves change. Managing this change helps your team perform better and supports a positive culture.

Tip: When you focus on leadership, unity, and change management, you set your team up for EPM success.

You can apply these lessons to any organization, no matter its size. When you use EPM, you help your team work smarter, deliver better results, and grow your business.

You can simplify enterprise project management by following clear steps. Start by aligning projects with your business strategy. Optimize how you use resources and establish standardized processes. The table below highlights key takeaways:

Key Takeaway	Description
Align Projects with Business Strategy	Ensure every project aligns with the overall business strategy at the organizational level.
Optimize Resource Utilization	Address issues where departments compete for resources and improve visibility across the portfolio.
Establish Standardized Processes	Implement standardized processes to enhance delivery speed and efficiency.

Regularly update your processes and templates. Equip managers with project management skills. Microsoft Planner gives you modern tools to support your journey. Keep learning and adapting. Start today and help your team achieve lasting success.

FAQ

What is enterprise project management (EPM)?

Enterprise project management means you manage all projects in your organization with one system. You use EPM to align projects with business goals and improve results. EPM helps you track progress, manage resources, and deliver value.

How does Microsoft Planner help with EPM?

Microsoft Planner gives you a simple way to organize tasks, assign work, and track progress. You can use it for small teams or large organizations. Planner connects with Microsoft 365, so you can collaborate and share updates easily.

Can I use Microsoft Planner for both small and large projects?

Yes, you can use Microsoft Planner for any project size. Planner works well for single projects, programs, or entire portfolios. You can customize plans, use templates, and scale as your needs grow.

What are the benefits of integrating Planner with Power Platform?

When you connect Planner with Power Platform, you automate tasks, create custom reports, and gain deeper insights. You save time and make better decisions with real-time data and advanced analytics.

How does Microsoft Planner keep my project data secure?

Planner uses enterprise-grade security features. You control who can see your plans and tasks. Features like Information Barriers and Microsoft Information Protection help you keep sensitive information safe and meet compliance standards.

What is the difference between a project, a program, and a portfolio?

Project: One-time effort with a clear goal.
Program: Group of related projects managed together.
Portfolio: All projects and programs managed to support business strategy.

Each layer needs different management strategies.

How do I get my team started with EPM?

Start by assessing your needs and choosing the right tools. Train your team on new processes and digital tools like Microsoft Planner. Use templates and clear workflows. Celebrate milestones to build confidence and encourage adoption.

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>> Yeah, welcome to back to the MC65 podcast,

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the podcast where we explore everything happening

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across the Microsoft ecosystem from Microsoft C65

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and Power Platform to AI,

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Co-Pilot, Azure Security and Productivity.

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Today, we are diving into a topic

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that almost every organization is trying to work.

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How do you manage project without investing in

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an expensive enterprise PPM platform?

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Can Microsoft plan a evolved from

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a simple task management app into a complex project

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and part of your management solution?

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Oh, our guest today, believe the answer could be yes.

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Join us this Eric Funderhook,

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Microsoft experts specializing in project

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and portfolio management using Microsoft technology,

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Eric helps the media with large organizations

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build practical planning solutions

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by extending Microsoft Planner with Power Apps

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and the Power Platform.

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Wherever you are a PMO leader,

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project manager, Power Platform devolves,

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simply trying to organize work more effortously today.

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Episodes, as practical insights.

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Eric, welcome to the MC65 podcast.

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>> Well, Mirko, thank you very much for having me on the show.

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I'm excited, let's dig in.

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>> Yeah, awesome.

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Can you, before we deep dive into the topic,

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I think we are interested to learn more about Eric.

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Can you tell us a little bit about your surf

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and your journey into the Microsoft ethical system?

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>> Absolutely.

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I am a Microsoft MVP based in the Netherlands

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and I work for a company called Context End.

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We've been deploying project and portfolio management solutions

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for well over 25 years now.

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And myself, I'm a 17-year consultant,

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starting as a junior in a local branch

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of a local company and growing to implement enterprise solutions

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to a cross-to-glow.

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One of my current biggest customers is actually based in the US.

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And we're just implementing phase two,

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so it's always an exciting time.

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Yeah.

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>> And what first attract you to the project

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and portfolio management?

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>> Well, it's funny, I'm actually supposed to be a marketer.

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From the college off, I did college for commercial economics.

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And I'd or means that you go for marketer or sales.

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And it depends if you had any experience

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before you started working, right?

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And after college, did you have experience

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then you would go to a marketer's role?

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And if you didn't have any experience,

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well, the only place that you could land a job was in sales.

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So I started in sales and I joined a local IT company, as I mentioned.

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As a sales representative, I made the statements of work,

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did enterprise tenors.

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And at some point, there was an issue with the consultants

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and not having enough people on board

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or having over or on their allocation.

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And I started investing in creating this huge Excel macro.

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And that kind of worked really good.

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I pat on my own shoulder.

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But it was a good thing.

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And management saw that and they said,

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well, if Eric can do this internally,

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maybe he should be a consultant.

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And we had a small group of very active Microsoft project consultants

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at that company.

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And I was put as a trainee for a mentor there.

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And he taught me the ropes of Microsoft project server.

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And that is just a world that is beautiful, right?

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You go to a customer, you listen in what their issues are.

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You help them create this beautiful product

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that grows on you and that grows in the organization.

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Yeah, and that's 17 years now in the patch.

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But I've never looked back.

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It's a beautiful job.

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Yeah.

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Awesome.

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And what are the-- I think, Eric, we have these Excel

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and we have now-- there's a lot of modern tools.

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A little bit over the end with this.

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I'm using more DevOps for project management.

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But what are the biggest challenges

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you're seeing often inside organization in this time,

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especially in project management?

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Yeah, so the world is evolving.

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And I'm more faster now than ever, of course.

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And we will talk about AI as you mentioned already.

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But I started off with Microsoft Project 2003.

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And at 1, 2, 7, and 13, 17, project online, project server.

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Project server first and project online.

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The whole agile movement came up.

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That's probably what you would use DevOps

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because that is a more can-ban and agile way of working.

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Like you mentioned, there's a vast amount of applications

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available to us.

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And if you Google Planning Software,

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Microsoft isn't even in the top five, right?

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Microsoft is very much a corporate application software

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ecosystem.

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But a lot of projects are managed outside of the enterprise.

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And that's where most of these search engines will find you,

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right?

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So Trello might look at--

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show up at monday.com, the smaller companies.

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And I'm saying that with a lot of love for these applications.

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But what enterprises struggle with is one of the components

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within project management.

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And at the first per organization.

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And that's the beauty of being a consultant.

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You face them all, right?

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One organization might have trouble finding out all the projects

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that they have.

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They have no clue.

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Are we running 20 projects?

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Are we running 30?

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Or 300?

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Or 5,000 projects?

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I've seen those projects as well.

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Or companies as well.

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Then another organization wants to get better grip on their portfolio

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on a financial basis.

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Or--

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and this is the holy grail and something

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that most organizations struggle with is correct utilization

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of your resources.

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How difficult is it to say, OK, we have 200 people

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in our project management pool.

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How are you going to utilize them?

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What skills do they have?

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Do we have enough project managers?

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Do we have enough developers?

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Do we have enough scrum masters?

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Whatever the case, this is a struggle.

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And it's a struggle within an organization

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because there are so many dependencies.

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Because a project manager doesn't own a resource.

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The project manager owns the project--

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and not all in all cases even--

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but then you have the resource manager,

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or we sometimes call them line managers.

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And the line manager owns the resource,

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but they don't own the project.

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And it's a constant battle between the project manager

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and the resource manager to utilize the resources.

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And that's enough, but don't overstress them.

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And the project manager to deliver on time on budget

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and with the correct quality.

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So those are the struggles that I see most within organizations

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when it comes to enterprise project management.

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What my problem I often see is that companies

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have a lot of project teams, and sometimes

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they develop something similar, or steps

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of something similar, and then they develop the two times.

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And they have no communication or overview how this could happen.

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But before we deep dive into the topic,

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my last question about, I'd say, project management

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and your experience.

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And over two decades, you are now in project management.

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How have project management changed over the two

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decades?

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So the scenario that I've seen is project management

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maturing a whole lot.

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There is a sea there's an ocean of knowledge

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available to everyone.

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And in my experience, the project manager

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wants to learn.

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These are eager people that want to have their project succeed.

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So these are highly trained professionals

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that sometimes might struggle with the tool

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choice that you do, but they have expert knowledge

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on the methodologies.

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They know what a resource management needs to be like.

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They know the budgeting.

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They know what IRR stands for, net present value.

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They know what a baseline and a critical path is.

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So project management, as a profession, has grown since recent years.

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The past 20 years has seen a huge upside

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on the skills that project managers have,

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where the issue is the layer above where program management

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becomes a profession or portfolio management becomes a profession.

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And these are different colors of a same kind of beastie,

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a portfolio is not a project.

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A program is not a project.

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And in most organizations, these are pulled under the same rug.

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And even project online and project server

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doesn't have a program entity or portfolio entity.

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So that's one of the first things that we did

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with R2 is create that layer.

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Let there be a separate ownership of that record in data

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versus as you're familiar with.

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You have these enterprise, these entities,

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and you can pull relationships in there.

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So you can now have a program with five or six or eight projects

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underneath and have its own budget, its own risks,

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on lessons learned and the whole shebang.

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So project management is evolving very quickly

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and is a mature profession in that sense.

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I think the next big step for learning

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is is program and portfolio management.

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See that bigger picture.

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And I wanted to tag along with something

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that you said earlier is, and I lost my train of thought.

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Sorry.

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We'll probably pick that up later.

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But yeah, that's the thing with learning, portfolio

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and program management in next in line.

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Then we'll look a little bit into the Microsoft ecosystem.

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And I think like me, many people are confused by the Microsoft

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planning tools they have.

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I think they are its planner, OK?

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Microsoft project.

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Then we have DevOps, what I use, but I

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does more for the technical guys.

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And then we have to do.

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So let us start with, I think, Will's planner.

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Can you describe what is planner to someone who never used it?

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Yeah.

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So let's do a little bit of a history lesson with planner,

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because planner is quite a new application.

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Where Microsoft project is as old as I am.

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I'm not going to give you my age, but is as old as I am.

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And has been around for a very long time

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in perfecting project management.

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It is by far a beautiful application of running a single project.

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Planner is very new and really took

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storm during the pandemic of COVID-19, where offices were empty,

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and everyone needed to jump on Microsoft Teams

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to communicate to each other.

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And there was planner, this lightweight application,

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that was capable of creating a can-manboard, light

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progress, checklists, the ability to communicate and tag

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people within a specific team.

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So Microsoft Planner was one of the most popular Teams

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applications when Teams took off.

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And planner really piggybacked on that popularity.

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But it wasn't the only Microsoft application

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that could do something with project management.

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The eternal--

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yeah, I like to call it a parasite.

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The eternal parasite called Microsoft Excel

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went in building again, chart, right?

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It doesn't do product management, but people

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tend to use it a lot.

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So you have Excel and you had Microsoft Project.

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And there's a steep learning curve

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when you start working with Microsoft Project.

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And as you mentioned, then we have Devolves,

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Nymor Agile, Nymor TextHavvy, Project Management System.

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So where does planner fit in?

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And when it was introduced and when it was put to marketing,

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the most often use case you would hear is the marketing team.

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The market needs to have a new campaign.

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The marketing team isn't per se a project management savvy,

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organizational structure, or department, right?

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So the marketing for planner aimed

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for the lightweight project manager, the project manager,

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but not by name, right?

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So these aren't the people that studied it.

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These aren't people that I meant when I mentioned that project

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management has evolved, right?

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So Microsoft had a challenge because where does planner

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fit in with project?

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So what we get is we create it for planner premium.

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And planner premium is an application

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that has more capabilities.

271
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,680
It gives you the ability to create a Ganshark, right?

272
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,160
So with the more with the dependency,

273
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,320
it now has baseline capabilities.

274
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,840
It can create that critical path.

275
00:15:54,840 --> 00:16:00,400
And like I mentioned, Microsoft Project is as old as I am.

276
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:05,520
They haven't changed a lot to the base core competence, right?

277
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,600
The basic software is still the same.

278
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,000
And we added on top of that and made it improved it,

279
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,360
but the base functionality is still there.

280
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,120
So Microsoft created planner premium

281
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,000
to be a modern counterpart.

282
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,080
It will never be similar to Microsoft Project

283
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,080
in all its extent because Microsoft Project

284
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,200
is a desktop application very powerful.

285
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:34,040
So that cannot run fully on a browser interface.

286
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,520
But you have planner, lightweight projects,

287
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,400
and you have planner premium where you can have full blown

288
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,400
schedules, real projects.

289
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,720
You would maybe even be able to build the pyramids with it.

290
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,680
I don't know why you would because they're already there.

291
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,320
But yeah, you could do real project management

292
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,560
with planner premium.

293
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,720
And then there's another tool called to do.

294
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:00,720
Yeah.

295
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,240
Is your personal--

296
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,680
I like to call it a grocery list application.

297
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:12,000
It's by no means demoting the application

298
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,560
because it's a very powerful tool for note taking

299
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,560
and toss taking on a personal level.

300
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:22,760
So you have to do planner premium.

301
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,000
Well, Microsoft said during last Ignite session

302
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,760
is we're combining it.

303
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,280
That is going to be the future.

304
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,680
There's going to be one planner for everything related

305
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:38,960
to task management.

306
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,200
And that's where the division comes from what our organization

307
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:44,800
does, context end.

308
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,000
And what Microsoft is doing.

309
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,080
So here's the deal.

310
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,760
Planner is a task management solution.

311
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,240
It does that very well.

312
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,520
All tasks live in planner.

313
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,160
And that will be the future of what Microsoft has seen, right?

314
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,880
At least how I envisioned that.

315
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,800
But it's not an enterprise project management solution.

316
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,760
And that's where the Brenham Butter is for our organization.

317
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,240
We surface the PMOs, the enterprise project

318
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,680
and portfolio management offices.

319
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,560
And planner can be a component in that.

320
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,880
But again, no program level, no risks, no lessons learned,

321
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,280
no financial component.

322
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,560
And that's where we bring that into the system

323
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,400
using dataverse and the power platform,

324
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,720
because that is a very flexible application.

325
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,920
Well, platform, right?

326
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:50,160
So you have power apps, you have power automate, you have Power BI.

327
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:55,520
And the whole deal there is that you can build that out.

328
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,080
And yeah, it's almost like a block of marble.

329
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,440
And you need to chisel out the David.

330
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,080
And that's what you've been doing.

331
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,600
A lot of people in my--

332
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,360
in one of my companies, I work a little bit longer.

333
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:16,600
They say Microsoft Project is a classical project management

334
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,400
tool with a waterfall model.

335
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,080
And use planar-based power and DevOps,

336
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,800
because this is Ed Agile, and it's nothing

337
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,240
what's working in Microsoft's project.

338
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:29,680
Is it right?

339
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,200
Well, Microsoft Project has an agile component.

340
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:33,700
OK.

341
00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:39,440
But it is really true that it isn't the main focus.

342
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,360
Agile was created for a developer and a software engineering

343
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:45,920
department, right?

344
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,080
It is not meant for all types of project.

345
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,800
And I think the world is coming to terms with that.

346
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,360
Some projects should not be wrong Agile.

347
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:02,440
Other projects should, but not every project can run Agile.

348
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,640
If I want to build a house, I'm not starting with a tent.

349
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,440
I'm starting with the foundation.

350
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,920
And that is a waterfall project.

351
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,720
So yes, the agile components really

352
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,680
live in the IT departments and software development,

353
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,640
because you pick something up.

354
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,760
You work on it until you don't work on it.

355
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,480
And you hand that over.

356
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,640
And you iterate on these processes.

357
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,760
Microsoft Project is one of the top applications

358
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,480
when it is compared to waterfall projects.

359
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,640
And you have competition, but Microsoft Project is

360
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,680
the default within most organizations still.

361
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,720
And I see also a lot of companies

362
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,360
they have another project management

363
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:53,920
to it.

364
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,240
They use Teams in JAPOINT.

365
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,480
Yeah, absolutely.

366
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:05,160
It's a struggle at times to start a new engagement

367
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,400
with an organization.

368
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:12,040
Because most often it starts from a specific department

369
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,280
that has a specific need.

370
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:19,440
And when we come there, when we join their team

371
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,160
to build this project management software,

372
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,400
it typically happens that other departments look at us

373
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,600
and say, oh, I want you to own a board.

374
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,880
And it can happen that one department will work with planner.

375
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,960
And another department will work with DevOps.

376
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,720
A third one might use JIRA.

377
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,760
And where does our software then land?

378
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,040
Is that middle layer?

379
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,800
We've done that a couple of times where we connect DevOps.

380
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,000
We connect JIRA.

381
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,320
We connect planner.

382
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,560
We connect Trello into our software.

383
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,240
Because we don't tend to compete with Microsoft planner

384
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,600
or project management software like Project Server

385
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,000
or Project Online.

386
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,600
We are that shell on top of it.

387
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:13,600
Yeah.

388
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:21,120
Your software is to getting an overview of all projects, right?

389
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:24,680
So that is what I mean with an enterprise portfolio

390
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,320
management software.

391
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:31,440
And we changed that name a little bit.

392
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,680
Our tool is called ProjectMXPM.

393
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,840
And the X is really everything project management.

394
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,920
And that means that we have a financial module.

395
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,640
That means that we have a scheduling module.

396
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,160
That means that we have risk management in there.

397
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,120
And we do have a scheduling component.

398
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:58,160
So you could use ProjectMXPM as its own application layer

399
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,800
and as its own full-blown project and portfolio management

400
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,200
software.

401
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:09,480
But in case you want your financials to come from an SAP background,

402
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,000
and we can interact with that.

403
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,720
We can integrate with that.

404
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,700
If you are very happy with planner,

405
00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:18,680
planner has its APIs.

406
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,640
So yes, we can pull that information in using the Graph API,

407
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,880
well, WorkIQ now, right?

408
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:31,000
So we can pull that in, WorkIQ, because the whole set of APIs

409
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,600
was just released recently.

410
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,520
So we have the capabilities of pulling all that information

411
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,280
in and our tool creating that layer that

412
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,680
isn't provided by Microsoft Stack itself or other stacks.

413
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,240
So we delivered that portfolio enterprise overview,

414
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,760
that strategic overview of how many projects do you have,

415
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,960
how many budget are you consuming?

416
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,480
Are you getting out of touch with your critical path

417
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,760
or your baseline?

418
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,960
How is resource in going?

419
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:13,120
Do you have core competencies in abundance?

420
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,120
Or are you running behind?

421
00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:20,640
So that's the conversation that our tool brings.

422
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,120
We're not unique.

423
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,240
In this sense, there is competition.

424
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,880
And that's healthy.

425
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:31,040
But we have done this since the first red flags

426
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,280
came up from Microsoft.

427
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,280
OK, we are not going to develop project online anymore.

428
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,200
That happened roughly 16 years ago.

429
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,080
Well, no, that might be a little bit stretching it.

430
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,000
But it happened a number of years ago.

431
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,360
We jumped on board with a power platform

432
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:51,280
and have been developing our application since then.

433
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,960
So yeah, enterprise project management

434
00:24:53,960 --> 00:25:00,080
is not the single schedule where that layer on top.

435
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,120
This is it.

436
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:03,680
For sure, because have you developed

437
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,680
this completely in your solution in the Microsoft ecosystem?

438
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:09,960
So XPM.

439
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:15,680
So our solution is built on a model driven power app

440
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:22,160
with its own tables, security roles, relationships.

441
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,920
And there are specific components

442
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,840
that we took either PCF components in,

443
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,240
or we had our developers create our own IP.

444
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,160
So I mentioned before that we have a financial module.

445
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,120
We have a scheduling module.

446
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,320
We have a resource management module.

447
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,160
Those were developed by our developers

448
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:50,240
as a core component of the whole solution.

449
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:55,040
So yeah, it's Microsoft plus a little bit

450
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,320
of intelligence from the developers.

451
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,840
And I am absolutely not a developer.

452
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,280
I've been in DevOps.

453
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,040
I've worked with DevOps, but I'm not a developer at all.

454
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,280
No.

455
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,920
But how do you see when we talk about this,

456
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,840
tools, especially from the power platform,

457
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,040
we have power apps, power automate, and also power BI,

458
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,520
I think it could also be interesting.

459
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:31,920
How did you see these tools extending the project management

460
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:40,120
towards the best world, the project management project management world?

461
00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:43,120
Yeah.

462
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:49,120
So the project management world, and for our customers,

463
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:54,120
to dig into deeper, what we've previously seen

464
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:58,600
is that the project server and project online environments

465
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,680
were delivered and developed by Microsoft.

466
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:08,440
And it was difficult for us to add our own coding,

467
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:09,960
our own specifics to.

468
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:17,640
Now with the power platform, that flexibility

469
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:23,240
here that we have, you want a new table that doesn't exist yet,

470
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,240
and you want it to interact with your initiatives level

471
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,240
because we have projects, but we also have an agile track,

472
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,640
so we call it initiatives.

473
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,880
Well, OK, within a couple of hours,

474
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,840
you have that whole new table that didn't exist before,

475
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,320
and it works.

476
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,240
And it feeds back into our power hub application,

477
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,640
which is our reporting layer, and that feeds into power BI.

478
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,200
And then you have power automate, you have this whole stack

479
00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:01,440
of applications from Microsoft that make this such a flexible layer.

480
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,640
We have our base product that's called ProjectMXPM,

481
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:13,080
but once we're done as consultants, it still is ProjectMXPM,

482
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,560
but it's ProjectMXPM custom name, right?

483
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:23,680
It becomes a very local version that ties into their needs

484
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,280
as we started, right?

485
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,560
One company might be very financial focused,

486
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,720
and the other might be very resource focused.

487
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:38,960
And the flexibility with the power platform that you get is immense.

488
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:48,720
And I think with the whole AI topic, that is going into sixth gear.

489
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,280
It is going so fast.

490
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,960
And I'm very happy that the Dataverse environment and a co-pilot studio

491
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:03,000
is so close to Dataverse because we're front and center.

492
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:08,360
We're maybe we already are, or maybe we're still

493
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,560
becoming a frontier organization, meaning

494
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,560
that we adopt these new technologies as they come out,

495
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,600
and we train our consultants on it.

496
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:27,320
And having co-pilot studio and an MCP server on Dataverse,

497
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,040
it was a dream working with ModelDriven Power Apps before,

498
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,560
but now the sky's the limit.

499
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,560
[LAUGHTER]

500
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,040
Absolutely.

501
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,240
Yeah, that's really great.

502
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,680
I think, yeah, that's--

503
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:49,120
I think for me at the start, it's worth all a little bit.

504
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,120
Yeah, I think, OK, all of these co-pilot doesn't work.

505
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,680
I don't like it, but now they have--

506
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,760
I think they have got to turn Microsoft.

507
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,400
So now I use it.

508
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,760
And I think it's also interesting what they do with this code apps,

509
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:04,280
and so on.

510
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,400
And that comes a lot of interesting stuff.

511
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,480
Yeah, it is a catch-up world, right?

512
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,840
One organization might invent an LLM,

513
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,200
and Microsoft and it's about that.

514
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,080
Then there is a time where it needs to catch up to the organization.

515
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:26,040
And now we have co-pilot, and we have co-work.

516
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,880
And since co-work was activated on my machine,

517
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,200
I was like a kid in a candy store again.

518
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,000
Things that that thing can do.

519
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,360
And I'm only hearing this from the developers on our side

520
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,960
that Claude is doing an excellent job for them,

521
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,720
and they don't use co-work.

522
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,800
But yeah, it's brilliant.

523
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:57,480
It just makes so much sense to use the AI in your day to day job nowadays.

524
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:58,800
Yeah.

525
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,600
I think what I'm really interesting, also,

526
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,480
is this topic project portfolios.

527
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,520
Can you a little bit, how did you work with this, or your tool?

528
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,320
Now, I'm really interested in it, and it's topic.

529
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,960
Yeah, so in the scenario that you have your project,

530
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,560
as a project manager, you might have five projects.

531
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:28,240
Or you're a project manager, and you got some promotion,

532
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,360
and now all of a sudden you're a portfolio manager,

533
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,520
or a project manager, let's start with a program manager.

534
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,000
You're running this huge project.

535
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,800
Let's take a building a nuclear power plant as an example.

536
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,320
That is no longer a house.

537
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,120
That doesn't start out as a tent.

538
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:54,320
No, a nuclear power plant is this massive engagement.

539
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,040
So if you are in an organization that builds these things,

540
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,720
then I can imagine that building that is a program.

541
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,120
It might even be a portfolio, but let's go for program for now.

542
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,120
Because there will be a department that is dedicated

543
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:16,600
for the nuclear isotopes and a separate department

544
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,840
that runs the project of the cooling engine,

545
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,440
and a third project that runs the actual outer shell.

546
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,920
So these are minor projects within that program that you run.

547
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,040
So that's its own layer.

548
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,880
It has different ownership.

549
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:40,160
You have different risks that go across those different projects.

550
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,400
And that layer didn't exist previously

551
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,560
with Microsoft Project or Project Server.

552
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,000
You needed to create your own tech

553
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,600
that this is a program, not a project.

554
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,600
But within our tool, we have the program layer.

555
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:02,360
And you can have its dedicated budget, its dedicated risks,

556
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:07,000
dedicated stakeholders, its own SharePoint folder structure,

557
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,880
for instance.

558
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,320
And then there's a layer on top.

559
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,360
That is the portfolio layer.

560
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,960
And this differs per organization,

561
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:25,400
but you could see a portfolio as a transform portfolio.

562
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,680
Every project that delivers something completely new

563
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,080
is in the transform portfolio.

564
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,840
It has a project, right?

565
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,560
An organization needs to align 20% of its budget to evolve,

566
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,120
evolve or die.

567
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:46,480
So having that portfolio and someone that guards that money

568
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,400
makes perfect sense.

569
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,960
Then you also have these scenarios where a portfolio is tied

570
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,440
into a technology.

571
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,200
We surface a lot of sustainable energy companies.

572
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,200
And typically, these portfolios are aligned

573
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,240
with the technologies of sustainable energy, like nuclear,

574
00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:12,360
like wind, like solar, like hydrogen, well, hydrogen,

575
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,480
and nuclear.

576
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,200
So you have these different technologies

577
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,200
that could be a portfolio.

578
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,960
Or you have different departments that are a portfolio.

579
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,320
But typically, you have these different layers.

580
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,000
And with these different layers, you

581
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:36,800
need to have an organizational structure that supports that.

582
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,760
And that's where the project management office, typically

583
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,920
something that lives within a department

584
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,720
and communicates with the project managers in that department,

585
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:51,840
also has its enterprise counterpart.

586
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,560
So you have your enterprise portfolio management office.

587
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,760
And that is the group that we love to talk to.

588
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,560
They have a bird's eye view of everything

589
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,920
that happens in the organization, project-wise.

590
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:12,880
And you can just talk with these people on what information

591
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,560
does need to trickle up to the portfolio, what kind of parabia

592
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,280
reports do you want?

593
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,520
Do you need trend analysis on how risks evolve, things like that?

594
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:31,280
So the portfolio layer is its own entity, its own table.

595
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:39,080
It might have similar fields and columns like the project.

596
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,280
But it also has its own.

597
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,640
We can cut the example.

598
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,640
Yeah.

599
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:52,840
The value thing is because you say this was the nuclear stuff.

600
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,880
I have Niluva Doga on the last podcast.

601
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,000
And she works at the International Atomic.

602
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,000
OK.

603
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,400
Yeah.

604
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,480
So it's a good--

605
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:06,480
Nice trend.

606
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:07,480
Yeah.

607
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:20,320
So I think a little bit about the future of PMOs in the AI area.

608
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,840
How did you see AI is changing project management?

609
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:34,880
All my blog, I jumped on board like so many others with regards

610
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,840
to chat GPT and what was it going to do for us.

611
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,680
I started that conversation with the term,

612
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,560
it's the ideal drafting engine.

613
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,200
It can create beautiful things, but you

614
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:57,960
should be the end person that evaluates something.

615
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,720
Before the large language models, I've had an interest in AI.

616
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:09,120
And every time I read about it, it talked about there's

617
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,120
not enough test material for project management

618
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,120
to be fully adopted within AI.

619
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,240
And what we mean with that is let's say

620
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:25,480
we want to create an agent that is the ideal project

621
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,560
manager in your organization.

622
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,880
First off, human backfire, because people

623
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,480
don't want to have AI as being their boss.

624
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,960
But then every project is its own universe.

625
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,680
It has its budget, it has its risks, it has its team.

626
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,720
And that is unique, because it's unique in the time

627
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:54,320
and in the end goal that you have.

628
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,600
A project is a unique endeavor in time budget and with a fixed

629
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,760
end date as well.

630
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,800
You might not reach that end date, but yeah, that's where

631
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:04,640
deadlines are for.

632
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:12,320
What I've seen happening is the AI is getting better and better

633
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:19,920
and better and better in facilitating the project manager,

634
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,040
building a product brief, a PID document.

635
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:25,760
Brilliant.

636
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,120
If you are a good project manager, you

637
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:33,680
can instruct that agent to build a very nice template

638
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,360
sensitive document.

639
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,280
But your project is unique.

640
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:46,800
It has never happened before, because time and budget

641
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,480
and resources, all these things change.

642
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:55,560
So you as the project manager are end responsible.

643
00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:02,960
So it is also very good at reading through all the lessons

644
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:03,840
learned.

645
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,200
And this is a part of project management that isn't mature,

646
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,280
or is on its way of maturing.

647
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,080
And that is lessons learned documentation.

648
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:20,760
It is a we have to do it component within project management.

649
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:21,960
You finish your project.

650
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:26,440
You need to write that document what you learned previously

651
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:31,840
that will be printed out, shoved into a box and forgot.

652
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,040
Theory tells us that we need to learn from the document,

653
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,280
and we need to implement that in our projects afterwards.

654
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:45,040
With AI, we finally can do that, because AI is tireless.

655
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,080
And it can read through all those documents

656
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,240
and facilitate the project manager for building

657
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:54,080
that new nuclear power plant.

658
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,040
Come back to that power plant.

659
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,200
Let's say we built 10 of those during the lifecycle

660
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:01,920
of our project.

661
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,680
We have learned things.

662
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,000
We can do this better, faster, with higher quality.

663
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:13,120
Next time, if only we learned, AI is our catalyst for that.

664
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,680
We will be able to instruct.

665
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,400
And we're working on that at ProjectMXBM,

666
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,520
where if a project manager goes for a new project,

667
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,840
then there is this subsection of information

668
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,920
that comes from lessons learned.

669
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,200
I am a project manager.

670
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,840
I'm sitting behind my desk, or I'm talking to my phone,

671
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,440
because I have an agent.

672
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,440
And I'm saying, I want to build a new nuclear power plant

673
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,960
in Chironingen, the Netherlands, where I live.

674
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,280
It would be opposed to that, but yes.

675
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:51,600
Building a nuclear power plant in Chironingen.

676
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,800
And it looks through all those 10 power plants

677
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,280
that we did previously.

678
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,960
And it will surface all the risks that are associated with it.

679
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,640
Project manager, you're the expert.

680
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,920
But I have surfaced these items.

681
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,280
And 9 out of 10, you will have forgotten one of those lessons.

682
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,360
Or you would have not done this the right way.

683
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:15,920
It's a massive time safe.

684
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,480
It's a massive risk safe.

685
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:25,240
I think AI will tend full the capabilities

686
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:30,560
of the project manager, but it will never replace it.

687
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,400
Yeah, I'm not a good project manager.

688
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:34,880
I'm a lazy project manager.

689
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,560
So I do the change log with AI, and then I send it all

690
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,800
automatically to the stakeholders.

691
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,120
Yeah, exactly.

692
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,680
And there's a book, by the way, that's called the lazy project

693
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:47,480
manager.

694
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,560
Oh, OK.

695
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,600
It sounds something I have to read.

696
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,160
Yeah, it's a brilliant read.

697
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,960
It's written like you can be lazy,

698
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:03,040
but it's actually a good roadmap on how

699
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:04,760
to be good at project manager.

700
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,320
There's some things that you should do,

701
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:12,560
and some things that you actually should not do.

702
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,080
In my blog, I've told multiple times about,

703
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,120
don't be a micro manager.

704
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:19,960
Be a project manager, right?

705
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,360
There's a huge difference.

706
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,120
And you're working with experts.

707
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,160
Let them be the experts and let them report back to you.

708
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,160
Yeah.

709
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:34,120
So also, say, your blog, all the stuff

710
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,960
from you, the people find on the show notes.

711
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,600
So let's say this, so a little bit marketing.

712
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,400
Yeah.

713
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:47,400
So you feel back in your study time.

714
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,760
Is there also, I think, or can we say,

715
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:57,000
AI become a project assistant instead of a project manager?

716
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,000
Or--

717
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,120
I would love that.

718
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,840
We've talked about the project management office.

719
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:08,600
And one of the most popular recent videos that I did

720
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,160
was creating a skill for co-work.

721
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:18,280
And that skill is tied in becoming the best project manager

722
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:19,680
officer.

723
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,720
And that is actually the assistant of the project management

724
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:24,240
office, right?

725
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:27,120
It knows about project theory.

726
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,120
It knows about research management.

727
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:35,880
It knows about the broader theory.

728
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,800
But then again, you didn't bring in your own documentation,

729
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,840
so it's very global.

730
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,840
And the moment that an organization has a good feel

731
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:51,280
on their own processes, their own way of work,

732
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:56,320
I think AI can be the perfect assistant.

733
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,720
I'm saying that lightly, but yes, the perfect assistant.

734
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,120
And everyone could have an assistant.

735
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:07,040
But still, what do you do then in your free time?

736
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,720
What do you do in the time that you didn't have before?

737
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:13,320
Because you were still writing that document that AI finished

738
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,440
in 30 seconds.

739
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:23,520
There's a huge gain to be had in quality improvement.

740
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,400
Let's say previously I will be working as a project manager.

741
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:34,360
I will be working maybe 24 hours to write a status report.

742
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,280
With our system, it's a press of the button.

743
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,040
It picks up the template.

744
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,480
It fills the information that is all updated through the system,

745
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,160
and it sends that out to the manager.

746
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,400
As a project manager, that shouldn't

747
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,920
be your main focus, right?

748
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,720
As a project manager, your first priority is your team.

749
00:44:57,720 --> 00:44:59,600
And of course, the end goal of your project.

750
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,760
But your team is the most important.

751
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,440
And you need to be a facilitator for them.

752
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:05,960
Yeah.

753
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,520
And that's really interesting.

754
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,080
We have-- we can win a lot of time with AI.

755
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:15,080
So what showed project manager PIMOs

756
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:20,640
learn for staying relevant in times--

757
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,760
the AI world AI times.

758
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:24,800
Yeah.

759
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:30,080
I think not everyone will be interested in AI as we are,

760
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,840
as consultants, as solo primers.

761
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:39,240
We need to know the nuts and bolts of that AI.

762
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:42,040
We need to know how it takes.

763
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,920
And I think five years from now, AI is a given.

764
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:51,840
Everyone will be working with AI in one shape of form.

765
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,640
This is the first technology that I saw my parents adopt

766
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,480
sooner than I did.

767
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:58,680
Can you imagine?

768
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,120
My parents are in their 70s.

769
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,360
And they adopted this.

770
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,000
And they learned about it.

771
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,760
And of course, I work with a daily.

772
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,120
So I have an upside because they are retired.

773
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,560
So I'm still ahead of the girth.

774
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:22,240
But five years from now, it's a given that you work with AI.

775
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:28,920
And how you work with AI is either you're interested

776
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:35,240
in improving the AI or you're utilizing AI to its fullest,

777
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:39,360
meaning that either you help shape the future version of it

778
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:44,920
or you work with it and you are a lot more proficient

779
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,480
because of it.

780
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:51,880
It's almost like having a second Eric or a second Mirko

781
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:52,920
sitting beside you.

782
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:58,560
And yeah, you become the manager of you.

783
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,440
My date of the twin.

784
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,600
The digital twin.

785
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:03,960
Yeah, now I'm a Gemini.

786
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,120
So I can relate to that.

787
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,360
So yes, the digital twin.

788
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,360
We already have Azure with the twin world, right?

789
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,400
So AI could be your digital twin.

790
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,960
And I hope it doesn't go the way of sky net and determinator

791
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:28,560
and future versions of that dark mirror, black mirror, sorry.

792
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:36,040
But in some form, people will lose their job, go for something else.

793
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:41,000
But I think the general wealth of knowledge in the organizations

794
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:47,200
and with people internally will skyrocket.

795
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,680
Before we jump in the quick fire round, one last question.

796
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,360
Where did you see the role of governance in project management,

797
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,640
especially the Microsoft ecosystem?

798
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,440
Is there anything you say that's really important?

799
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,720
It is probably one of the more important things

800
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:12,680
that we need to take account of.

801
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,080
Because previously you might have been able to say,

802
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:19,600
OK, a project manager can see all projects,

803
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,080
including its finances.

804
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,200
And you would trust that the project manager

805
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,160
wouldn't because they didn't have the time

806
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:28,960
to look at other people's projects.

807
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,120
They didn't care.

808
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:36,640
But with the scenario of AI and work IQ

809
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:42,800
so that integrated net that AI can do everything that you can,

810
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,360
now all of the certain security and governance

811
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,640
becomes very important.

812
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:53,400
You have to scenario that if I have that scenario of opening up

813
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:59,720
all the projects, all of the projects have higher budget than I do.

814
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:01,240
What should I do?

815
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:06,040
Which managers should I tickle and find that extra budget for it?

816
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:15,160
So AI and governance is one of the key pillars of making this a success.

817
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,640
Please, as an organization, make sure

818
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:23,480
that you have a clear understanding of where permission is given.

819
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:31,320
And start from a no permission mindset, zero permission mindset, right?

820
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:37,440
The AI should have a zero permission access from day one and build from that.

821
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,720
Because if you give it too much information, too much power,

822
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:46,040
you can end up with a scenario where your complete database is removed, right?

823
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:51,840
You've probably seen that use case that someone had a clawed agent

824
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,960
to delete the whole organization.

825
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,520
So that is the power of AI.

826
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,920
And it can be used in that sense in a bad way, absolutely.

827
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,920
And yeah, let's jump in the quick fire route.

828
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:12,520
So you also have a podcast who will your dream guest?

829
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:17,000
So my podcast is called The Voices of the Neighborhood.

830
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:22,920
And it's having a next episode today as well,

831
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:28,120
because I'm jumping on the next guest right after this.

832
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:37,080
The Voices of the Neighborhood is a group of Microsoft MVPs from the Digital Neighborhood.

833
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,840
The Digital Neighborhood is the umbrella organization of context and

834
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:48,320
and as such, we have roughly 16, maybe 20 MVPs.

835
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:54,920
And it was my goal to elevate the availability of these MVPs.

836
00:50:54,920 --> 00:51:02,040
So my dream goal is not a specific person, but at least having all of these people

837
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:06,040
on my podcast for once, at least.

838
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,920
I'm in season two right now, so I did a full year of MVPs last year,

839
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,560
and I'm on a halfway through this year.

840
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:24,840
I think the podcast will evolve, where it's not just the Digital Neighborhood MVPs.

841
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,640
But I would love to turn the tables.

842
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,600
You would be an excellent guest.

843
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:36,040
Yeah, I'm open for everything in the future.

844
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:40,040
I don't have a dream candidate so far, Peter Kessinels,

845
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:45,640
my own founding partner of Projectum.

846
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:50,640
He was a really successful episode.

847
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,640
He had a really successful episode.

848
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:57,200
So I would love to add them back and I'm sure that that will happen.

849
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:02,800
And the Planner or Project depends on the goal.

850
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:10,480
As we've made it, Planner is lightweight and Project is enterprise.

851
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,040
My life revolves about the enterprise.

852
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,000
So I would say Project.

853
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:22,240
When you get all money, time, resources from Microsoft, which Planner feature will you

854
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:25,760
develop?

855
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,760
Enterprise custom fields.

856
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:34,320
Enterprise custom fields is something that has been there for Projects

857
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,240
Server and Project Online.

858
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:41,760
And it is, I believe, the key catalyst of making it an enterprise

859
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,200
solution.

860
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:49,280
So far, you have your projects and they live in their own bubble.

861
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:58,560
And if you can have a layer on top that says, okay, region as a field.

862
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,440
The region of the company is always the same.

863
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:06,480
So why not have that as a field on top of that project for all projects so

864
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:11,280
that we can have that enterprise reporting?

865
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:17,680
Enterprise resource, enterprise custom fields is something that we're missing.

866
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:23,120
And if I had all the power in time and money to push that through Microsoft's

867
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,400
throat, I would do that.

868
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,600
Yes.

869
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,440
Bit of ball or a...

870
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,040
The candle.

871
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:35,920
Bit of ball if he can tell.

872
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,880
I would say bit of ball.

873
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,960
And the reason behind that is because my wife is a celiac.

874
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,680
So that means that she cannot ingest any gluten.

875
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:51,760
And since then, you have had hardly any gluten stuff in the house.

876
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:57,040
And a bit of ball is made with gluten and the freaking bell is without.

877
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,040
So having something of the forbidden fruit would be nice.

878
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,080
Yes.

879
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,160
What did you think is the most underrated Microsoft app?

880
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:18,240
Most... Oh, loop. Definitely loop. Loop is a little bit of a hobby and a pet project for me.

881
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:24,320
Where Power BI has taken storm and was my previous hobby project.

882
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,880
Loop is something that is coming for everyone.

883
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,720
Where I'm a huge no-poker.

884
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:33,360
I have books where I scribble everything down.

885
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:34,800
I have one note.

886
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:40,000
And ever since loop, I haven't touched one note anymore.

887
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,560
And that's a big thing saying from my point.

888
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:43,360
Yeah.

889
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,360
I think it's also become so famous with AI actually.

890
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,320
Yeah, it's piggyback riding on that for sure.

891
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:51,360
Absolutely.

892
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,360
Yeah.

893
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,760
What did you think is project management in five years?

894
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:08,000
I think there's this famous saying of 80% of projects fail.

895
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,400
You can just google it.

896
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,200
How many projects percentage wise fail?

897
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,240
And it will be somewhere around 50 and 80%.

898
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:20,960
Those numbers are not the big deal.

899
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:28,000
I think that number will go down substantially.

900
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:35,600
Because we have more time to increase the quality of projects thanks to AI.

901
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:41,440
And is there any hobby people may not know about you?

902
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,600
Any hobby.

903
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,840
I'm a big fan of reading even though I'm dyslexic.

904
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,720
So I read very slowly and

905
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:56,800
Spotify now has audiobooks and that's a blessing.

906
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:03,920
I read a whole ton more than I used to and would have ever been able to do.

907
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:04,480
So yeah.

908
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,200
I'm a big audiobook fan.

909
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,160
Yeah.

910
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:13,680
Imagine someone is leading a PMO today and wants to modernize

911
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,240
isishing Microsoft technology.

912
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:20,560
What is the one piece of wise you will leave him with?

913
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:31,360
Involve a Microsoft partner fast early in the solution development.

914
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:38,240
Make sure that you have outside eyes looking at your project management methodology.

915
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:43,840
Because typically what we see and something that I tell customers early on is

916
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:48,080
you know your processes better than anyone in the world.

917
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:53,520
We and then Pat on the shoulder again, no project management.

918
00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:55,520
And our software.

919
00:56:55,520 --> 00:57:00,560
Right? So it involved partners early on.

920
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:05,440
They've been around for 25 years plus 17 years in my case.

921
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:10,640
We've seen things that you haven't seen and haven't thought of before

922
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:16,640
that will change the outcome of your application to the better.

923
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,960
Yeah.

924
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:25,520
And thank you so much Eric to join me today. It was a really interesting

925
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:32,560
travel through the Microsoft planner and all power ads power to make power be eye

926
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,120
and the board Microsoft system.

927
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:42,480
And yeah, I think we also have sometimes to do a real live stream with video

928
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,760
to see the solution you build with your team.

929
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:54,240
And yeah, that's, I'm really interested in and yeah, I hope we see us again.

930
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,520
And yeah, thank you so much for staying here.

931
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,960
Thank you, Mirko. It was a blast.

932
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:08,560
I thought it was very nice being on the show and I would welcome being back another time.

Mirko Peters

Founder of m365.fm, m365.show and m365con.net

Mirko Peters is a Microsoft 365 expert, content creator, and founder of m365.fm, a platform dedicated to sharing practical insights on modern workplace technologies. His work focuses on Microsoft 365 governance, security, collaboration, and real-world implementation strategies.

Through his podcast and written content, Mirko provides hands-on guidance for IT professionals, architects, and business leaders navigating the complexities of Microsoft 365. He is known for translating complex topics into clear, actionable advice, often highlighting common mistakes and overlooked risks in real-world environments.

With a strong emphasis on community contribution and knowledge sharing, Mirko is actively building a platform that connects experts, shares experiences, and helps organizations get the most out of their Microsoft 365 investments.

Erik van Hurck

xPM Consultant | Microsoft MVP | Content creator

I create solutions for Project and Portfolio Management and Planning needs in medium/large businesses. My motto is to help the PMO succeed using Microsoft Technology.