In this episode of the m365.fm podcast, Mirko Peters talks with Microsoft MVP Thomas Sandsør about the human side of CRM, Dynamics 365, and modern business applications. Rather than focusing on technical features, the conversation explores why successful CRM projects depend more on people, culture, leadership, and trust than on software itself.

Thomas shares his journey from aspiring soccer goalkeeper to becoming “The CRM Keeper,” explaining how teamwork, leadership, and understanding personalities shaped his consulting approach. Drawing from nearly 20 years of Dynamics CRM experience, he reflects on how he originally believed technology alone solved business problems, only to later realize that user adoption, change management, and organizational buy-in are the real drivers of success.

The discussion dives into why so many CRM implementations fail despite powerful technology. Common issues include weak leadership engagement, poor communication, unclear goals, and resistance to change. Thomas explains that sales, customer service, and marketing teams all require different adoption strategies because people interact with CRM systems differently.

AI and the future of business applications are also major themes. Thomas discusses Copilot, AI agents, automation, conversational interfaces, and the growing importance of data quality and governance. While excited about AI’s productivity potential, he also raises concerns about trust, security, and whether organizations are truly prepared for autonomous systems.

You know technology changes fast, but people always stay at the heart of every business. When you think about CRM, you might picture dashboards and data. But what about the Human Side of CRM? The right business applications, like Microsoft Dynamics 365, can empower you and your team. Imagine tools that build trust, support well-being, and spark real collaboration. In a recent hospital survey, employee satisfaction topped the list for successful CRM rollouts. With features like AI-powered insights and personalized interactions, Dynamics 365 helps you focus on what matters—people. The four pillars and five principles of CRM remind you that strong relationships drive real results.

Key Takeaways

Focus on building genuine relationships with customers and coworkers to enhance trust and collaboration.
Use CRM tools like Microsoft Dynamics 365 to personalize interactions and make customers feel valued.
Empower your team with supportive tools that automate routine tasks, allowing them to focus on strategic projects.
Encourage open communication and real-time updates to improve teamwork and cross-department alignment.
Utilize AI-driven insights to make data-informed decisions and enhance customer experiences.
Prioritize employee well-being by managing workloads and reducing administrative burdens with CRM systems.
Implement regular feedback sessions to involve your team in improving CRM processes and tools.
Measure satisfaction and well-being outcomes to ensure your people-centric approach is effective.

The Human Side of CRM

When you think about the human side of crm, you start to see that technology is only part of the story. The real magic happens when you use crm tools to build genuine connections and empower people. Microsoft Dynamics 365 stands out as a people-centric crm platform, helping you focus on what matters most—real human interaction and meaningful relationships.

Building Genuine Relationships

Trust and Empathy

You can’t have strong customer relationships without trust. The human side of crm means you use every tool to show customers and coworkers that you care. When you use a crm system like Dynamics 365, you get a clear view of every interaction. This transparency builds trust across your organization. You can see what your colleagues are working on, and you know everyone is on the same page.

Crm systems promote transparency by consolidating data, which builds trust across departments.
They encourage collaboration, reinforcing a culture of accountability and openness.
By focusing on customer feedback and behavior, crm tools help you develop empathy for your customers.

When you listen to feedback and respond with empathy, you show customers that you value their experience. This approach doesn’t just help customers—it also boosts employee satisfaction. When you feel motivated and equipped to do your job, you want to serve customers well. A positive employee experience leads to better customer loyalty and a stronger brand.

Personalization

Personalization is at the heart of the human side of crm. You want every customer to feel like more than just a number. With Dynamics 365, you can organize customer data and track every interaction. This lets you tailor your approach to each person. You can remember birthdays, follow up on past conversations, and offer solutions that fit each customer’s needs.

Tip: Use your crm to prioritize genuine connections. When you provide consistent value, you keep relationships strong and customers coming back.

Empowering Teams

Supportive Tools

Empowering your team is a big part of the human side of crm. When you have the right tools, you can do your best work. Dynamics 365 gives you features like AI automation, low-code workflow builders, and integrated communication tools. These features help you focus on what matters instead of getting stuck on repetitive tasks.

Here’s how Dynamics 365 supports team empowerment:

Feature	Impact on Team Empowerment
AI automation	Enhances forecasting accuracy, minimizes manual reconciliations, and identifies anomalies to reduce compliance risks.
Customer-driven innovation	Provides low-code automation tools and enhances dispute resolution, allowing teams to build workflows independently.
Global partner ecosystem	Offers tailored implementations and co-development opportunities, accelerating transitions and fostering innovation.

Crm systems also make it easy for everyone to share updates and feedback in real time. You can use chat features and activity feeds to keep everyone in the loop. This seamless communication breaks down barriers and helps your team work together.

Crm systems include features for task management and workflow automation, so you can organize and prioritize tasks as a group.
Automation of routine processes lets you focus on strategic projects, which sparks innovation and productivity.
A central crm system ensures that all departments have access to the same insights, so sales, marketing, and customer service can work together for a consistent experience.

Recognizing Performance

Recognition is another key part of the human side of crm. When you feel seen and appreciated, you want to keep doing your best. Dynamics 365 makes it easy to track achievements and celebrate wins. You can set up dashboards to highlight top performers or use automated notifications to recognize milestones.

A well-implemented crm system empowers employees and streamlines workflows, fostering a culture of efficiency.
When teams feel supported by their tools, they perform at their best, which leads to better customer relationships.

The human side of crm is all about trust, empowerment, and real connections. When you use crm tools like Dynamics 365 to support your team, you create a workplace where everyone can thrive.

Reducing Administrative Burdens

You know how paperwork and manual tasks can slow you down. When you spend hours entering data or chasing approvals, you lose time for meaningful work. That’s where modern crm platforms like Microsoft Dynamics 365 step in. They help you cut through the clutter and focus on what matters.

Automating Tasks

AI-Driven Workflows

Imagine your day with fewer repetitive tasks. AI-driven workflows in crm systems automate routine processes, so you can spend more time on projects that use your skills. You get actionable insights and reminders that keep you moving forward. Let’s look at how AI-driven workflows compare to traditional methods:

Aspect	AI-Driven Workflows	Traditional Methods
Task Automation	High (automates routine tasks)	Low (manual task handling)
Focus on High-Value Tasks	Increased (more time for strategic work)	Decreased (time spent on routine tasks)
Efficiency Improvement	Significant (actionable insights provided)	Minimal (limited insights)
Job Satisfaction	Higher (more engaging work)	Lower (monotonous tasks)

You feel more engaged when you tackle interesting challenges. Automation lets you focus on high-value tasks, boosting your job satisfaction. Nearly 90% of workers trust automated solutions to enhance productivity without errors. Companies using AI-powered crm solutions have seen a 20-30% increase in employee productivity.

Streamlined Data Entry

Data entry doesn’t have to be a headache. With crm tools, you get user-friendly forms and standardized fields. This reduces mistakes and saves time. Automation tools handle mundane tasks, so you can concentrate on building relationships and solving problems.

89% of full-time workers report increased job satisfaction due to automation.
91% say automation saves them time and improves their work-life balance.
Automation allows teams to focus on skill-based projects by reducing time spent on mundane tasks.

Simplifying Interfaces

User-Friendly Design

You want a crm system that feels easy to use. User-friendly design means you can find what you need quickly. Customizable dashboards give you instant access to insights. Standardized data entry minimizes errors and keeps information accurate.

Tip: Choose a crm platform that integrates with tools you already use, like Outlook. This streamlines your workflow and reduces mistakes.

Strategy	Benefit
Contextually triggered push-based information	Helps you by providing timely insights, reducing the chance of errors in data handling.
Guided behaviors for next-best-actions	Directs you on what to do next, minimizing confusion and mistakes.
Integration with Outlook	Streamlines workflow by allowing updates without switching applications, enhancing productivity and reducing errors.

Accessible Features

Accessible features make crm tools available to everyone on your team. You can customize dashboards, automate notifications, and integrate with other systems. This flexibility helps you work smarter and keeps your team connected.

You don’t have to struggle with complicated menus or hidden options. Accessible features ensure you spend less time searching and more time doing. When your crm system supports you, administrative burdens shrink and your productivity grows.

Enhancing Collaboration with CRM

Great teamwork starts with clear communication and easy access to information. When you use a crm platform, you give your team a single place to connect, share updates, and work together. This makes your daily work smoother and helps everyone stay on the same page.

Team Communication

Information Sharing

You know how frustrating it feels when you can’t find the details you need. A crm system solves this by creating a unified workspace for everyone—sales, marketing, service, and support. You can share notes, updates, and files right inside the platform. No more endless email chains or lost messages.

Sales teams see which marketing campaigns work best.
Marketers track leads as they move through the sales pipeline.
Support staff check purchase history, so sales reps know about any service issues.

Built-in messaging and note-sharing features help you send important updates to the right people. You don’t have to worry about missing something. Everyone gets the info they need, when they need it.

Cross-Department Alignment

When teams work together, projects move faster and results improve. Crm tools help you break down silos between departments. You can use project boards that connect research, marketing, and sales. This reduces bottlenecks and speeds up product launches.

Here’s how information sharing features support cross-department alignment:

Feature Description	Impact on Teamwork and Success
Knowledge base for best practices	Keeps everyone on track with clear guidelines
360-degree customer view	Gives all teams the full picture for better collaboration
Role-based access control	Protects sensitive info while keeping teams informed
Integration with other tools	Reduces time spent switching between systems
Notifications and alerts	Helps teams react quickly and stay aligned
Reporting and analytics	Shows what’s working and where to improve
Cross-functional customer management	Boosts efficiency and customer satisfaction
Visibility of all interactions	Ensures smooth handovers and consistent communication

You get a central hub where everyone can see what’s happening. This leads to better teamwork and happier customers.

Continuous Improvement

Feedback Channels

Your ideas matter. Crm platforms include feedback and idea management systems that let you share suggestions and report issues. When you give feedback, you help shape the tools you use every day. This makes you feel valued and keeps you engaged at work.

You can organize and analyze feedback to drive innovation.
Involving everyone in the process increases job satisfaction and productivity.

Adapting to Change

Change happens all the time. Crm systems help you adapt by offering flexible training and support. You can watch quick training videos or use digital adoption tools for in-app tips. Managers can talk with you about upcoming changes and why they matter.

Teams treat crm as an ongoing journey, not a one-time project.
Regular feedback helps make smart adjustments.
Celebrating wins keeps everyone motivated.

When you use a crm that supports collaboration and growth, you build a team that’s ready for anything.

Decision-Making and AI in CRM

You make better choices when you have the right information at the right time. That’s where AI and real-time insights in Microsoft Dynamics 365 come in. These tools help you see what’s happening now, spot trends, and act fast. Let’s explore how this works for you and your team.

Real-Time Insights

Data-Driven Choices

With a modern crm, you don’t have to guess. You get clear data that shows you what’s working and what needs attention. Systematic data collection turns random interactions into patterns you can use. Managers can see which customers are likely to buy again or which accounts might leave. This helps you plan and act with confidence.

Businesses using a crm are 86% more likely to exceed their sales goals.
Sales revenue often jumps by 21-30% after crm adoption.
94% of companies report higher sales productivity, and 91% see lower customer acquisition costs.
Customer retention rates go up for 93% of businesses after using crm software.

You can see how these numbers point to real business success. When you use data to guide your choices, you help your team win more deals and keep customers happy.

Personalized Customer Journeys

AI in Dynamics 365 lets you create journeys that feel personal for every customer. You can track satisfaction, spot risks, and send the right message at the right time. Real-time dashboards and automated surveys give you feedback fast, so you can keep improving.

Personalized communication and proactive engagement build stronger relationships.
Streamlined processes help your sales team convert more leads.
Tailored experiences keep customers loyal and coming back.

AI Capabilities

Predictive Analytics

Predictive analytics in Dynamics 365 helps you look ahead. You can find hidden patterns and predict what customers might do next. This means you can target the right people, score leads, and even spot customers who might leave. You can also make smart product recommendations and adjust prices based on trends.

Predictive analytics improves customer segmentation and lead scoring.
Churn prediction lets you act before you lose a customer.
Product recommendations and dynamic pricing boost sales and satisfaction.
Demand forecasting helps you manage inventory and meet customer needs.

Prompt-Driven Applications

AI in Dynamics 365 does more than crunch numbers. It helps you work smarter every day. You get automated task execution, workflow orchestration, and real-time decision support. The system gives you recommendations based on data, so you can focus on what matters most—your customers.

Tip: Use prompt-driven applications to automate routine work. This frees up your time for creative problem-solving and building real connections.

AI supports the human side of crm by taking care of the busywork and giving you insights you can trust. You get to spend more time helping customers and less time on manual tasks. That’s how you drive business success and create a workplace where people thrive.

Reducing Workplace Stress

You know how overwhelming it feels when your inbox fills up and notifications never stop. CRM platforms like Microsoft Dynamics 365 can help you manage stress at work by making information easier to handle and supporting your well-being.

Information Overload

Prioritizing Notifications

Too many alerts can make you lose focus and feel anxious. You might worry about missing something important or feel pressure to respond right away. When you use a CRM that lets you prioritize notifications, you can filter out the noise and pay attention to what matters most.

1 in 5 workers feel stressed and anxious about being replaced by AI.
24% of employees say AI has made their mental health worse because of information overload.
35% of workers hoard knowledge because they fear redundancy.

Research shows that every interruption can take over 23 minutes to recover from. If you switch tasks every 3 minutes, you never get a full mental reset. This constant partial attention increases your stress levels. By optimizing notification settings, you can reduce distractions and concentrate better.

Tip: Use CRM tools to set notification preferences. Focus on critical updates and mute less urgent alerts.

Simplifying Workflows

When your workflow feels complicated, you spend more time figuring out what to do next than actually doing your job. CRM systems help you simplify tasks and organize your day. AI tools can manage notifications by highlighting critical issues and streamlining routine inquiries. Asynchronous communication lets you work without constant interruptions, so you can dive deep into important projects.

Optimized workflows reduce distractions and help you focus on your main responsibilities.
Teams that use AI to manage notifications experience less cognitive overload.
Asynchronous communication methods minimize interruptions and support deep work.

Work-Life Balance

Flexible Access

Work-life balance matters more than ever. You want to get your job done and still have time for yourself. CRM platforms support flexible scheduling, so you can manage your hours and handle personal commitments. Remote access lets you work from anywhere, giving you the freedom to balance your professional and personal life.

An effective CRM helps you prioritize tasks and manage your time. Sales employees can focus on the right prospects, centralize reporting, and access customer documentation easily. This streamlines workflows and boosts productivity.

Wellness Features

Wellness features in CRM systems empower you to take care of yourself. You can set boundaries, track your workload, and participate in decision-making. When you feel heard and valued, your job satisfaction goes up. CRM tools encourage work-life balance and build a positive workplace culture.

Encouraging work-life balance creates a healthier environment.
Nearly 3 in 5 employees report negative impacts from work-related stress, including lack of motivation and energy.
36% experience cognitive weariness, 32% feel emotional exhaustion, and 44% report physical fatigue—a 38% increase since 2019.

Block out time for wellness activities. Use CRM features to schedule breaks and set reminders for self-care.

CRM platforms like Dynamics 365 help you reduce stress, manage information, and support your well-being. You get tools that make work easier and life better.

Ethics and Privacy in CRM

When you use a CRM system, you handle a lot of sensitive information. You want to know your data is safe, and you want your team and customers to feel the same. Ethics and privacy are not just about following rules—they help you build trust and keep relationships strong.

Data Transparency

Protecting Employee Privacy

You deserve to know how your information is used. A good CRM platform gives you control and keeps your privacy front and center. Here are some best practices you should look for:

Get explicit consent before collecting personal information.
Share clear privacy notices that explain how data will be used.
Give everyone access rights so they can view or correct their data.
Allow deletion rights so people can request removal of their information.
Keep records of all data processing activities.
Document what information is collected and why.
Map out where data is stored and who can access it.
Track how data is used for business purposes.
Monitor when and why data is shared with others.

When you follow these steps, you show respect for privacy and build trust with your team.

Ethical Data Practices

You want your CRM to do the right thing. Ethical data practices mean you only collect what you need, use it for clear reasons, and keep everything secure. Here’s what you should expect:

Process personal data lawfully, fairly, and transparently.
Collect data for specific, legitimate purposes.
Limit processing to only what is necessary.

You also need strong encryption and clear privacy policies. Training your team on privacy best practices helps everyone understand their role in protecting information. When you commit to these standards, you create a culture of trust.

Fostering Trust

Humanizing Digital Communication

You connect with people, not just data. CRM platforms help you personalize messages and keep conversations real. Personalization makes every interaction feel unique and valued. Sales technology lets you customize communication, which builds trust and loyalty.

A good CRM is a living archive. Without it, institutional memory is fragile: when staff leave, relationships vanish and context dissolves. With it, continuity is preserved and social capital is cultivated—the awareness of who trusts you and why, who influences others and how, who builds bridges and where.

Strengthening Relationships

You want your CRM to support real connections. Interactive communication tools help you stay in touch with customers and coworkers. Digital channels let you offer customized solutions and create value. When you focus on trust, you turn every interaction into an opportunity to strengthen relationships.

Evidence	Description
Firm-salespersons relationships	Interactive communication and CRM software reinforce reporting and interactions.
Firm/customers relationships	Digital channels allow for customized solutions and value generation.

When you put ethics and privacy first, you build a foundation of trust that supports your business and your people.

Action Steps for People-Centric CRM

You want your CRM to do more than just manage contacts. You want it to help your team thrive and your customers feel valued. Here are some practical steps you can take to humanize crm implementations and make your business applications truly people-centric.

Employee Involvement

User Feedback

Start by listening to your team. Ask them what works and what feels frustrating. Use surveys, quick polls, or even informal chats to gather honest feedback. When you invite everyone to share their thoughts, you show that their voices matter. Microsoft Dynamics 365 makes it easy to collect and organize this feedback right inside the platform.

Tip: Set up regular feedback sessions. Make it a habit, not a one-time event.

Co-Creation

Bring your team into the process of building care into systems. Let them help design workflows, dashboards, and even customer journeys. When employees help shape the tools they use, they feel more invested and engaged. You can use Dynamics 365’s low-code tools to let non-technical users suggest and test new ideas. This approach sparks creativity and helps you find solutions that fit real needs.

Invite team members from different departments to join CRM planning meetings.
Encourage everyone to share ideas for improving daily tasks.
Celebrate when a team suggestion leads to a positive change.

Measuring Impact

Satisfaction Metrics

You need to know if your people-centric approach is working. Track satisfaction metrics that go beyond sales numbers. Focus on how your team and your customers feel about their experiences. Here’s a quick look at some key metrics:

Satisfaction Metrics/Outcomes	Description
Customer Lifetime Value (CLTV)	Measures the total revenue a business can expect from a customer throughout their relationship.
Employee Retention	Indicates the ability of an organization to keep its employees, reflecting workplace satisfaction.
Understanding Customer Needs	Ongoing assessment of customer desires to drive innovation and loyalty.

Well-Being Outcomes

Don’t stop at numbers. Pay attention to well-being outcomes, too. Happy teams create better products and deliver stronger service. When you shift your focus from product-driven to people-centric strategies, you build loyalty and a positive culture. Understanding customer needs helps you grow and innovate in a sustainable way.

Measuring employee satisfaction is crucial because happy teams contribute to better products.
Understanding customer needs is essential for sustainable growth and innovation.
Shifting focus from product-driven to people-centric strategies enhances loyalty and culture.

Note: Keep checking in with your team and your customers. Continuous improvement means always looking for ways to make things better for everyone.

With these steps, you can create a CRM environment that values people first. Dynamics 365 gives you the tools to measure, adapt, and grow—so your business can thrive while your team and customers feel truly cared for.

You see real results when you put people first in CRM. Microsoft Dynamics 365 helps you build trust, boost teamwork, and create a happier workplace. Take a look at how focusing on the human side makes a difference:

Description	Impact
Better teamwork and communication	Higher job satisfaction and performance
Improved safety climate and working conditions	Stronger employee well-being
High satisfaction with CRM training programs	More likely to recommend and stay engaged

Reflect on your current CRM tools. Ask yourself if they support genuine relationships and well-being. Small changes can spark big improvements.

FAQ

What makes Microsoft Dynamics 365 people-centric?

You get tools that focus on relationships, not just numbers. Dynamics 365 helps you connect with customers and coworkers. You see real-time updates and insights that make your work easier.

How does CRM reduce stress at work?

CRM platforms organize your tasks and filter notifications. You spend less time on busywork. You can set reminders for breaks and wellness activities. This helps you feel less overwhelmed.

Can I personalize customer interactions with CRM?

Yes! You track every conversation and detail. You remember birthdays, preferences, and past issues. Personalization builds trust and keeps customers coming back.

Tip: Use CRM notes to add a personal touch to every interaction.

How does CRM support teamwork?

You share updates and files in one place. Everyone stays informed. Built-in chat and activity feeds keep your team connected. You work together without confusion.

Feature	Benefit
Chat	Quick updates
Activity Feeds	Real-time info

Is my data safe in Dynamics 365?

You control who sees your information. Dynamics 365 uses strong encryption and privacy settings. You can view, edit, or delete your data anytime.

What role does AI play in CRM?

AI automates routine tasks. You get smart recommendations and insights. AI helps you focus on important work and make better decisions.

How can I measure the impact of CRM on my team?

You track satisfaction scores and retention rates. You check feedback and well-being outcomes. These metrics show how CRM improves your workplace.

🚀 Want to be part of m365.fm?

Then stop just listening… and start showing up.

👉 Connect with me on LinkedIn and let’s make something happen:

🎙️ Be a podcast guest and share your story
🎧 Host your own episode (yes, seriously)
💡 Pitch topics the community actually wants to hear
🌍 Build your personal brand in the Microsoft 365 space

This isn’t just a podcast — it’s a platform for people who take action.

🔥 Most people wait. The best ones don’t.

👉 Connect with me on LinkedIn and send me a message:
"I want in"

Let’s build something awesome 👊

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,640
Yeah, hello, and welcome to another edition of the 365 FM podcast today, my guest is

2
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:12,600
Tomas Sunder and we talk about the human sign of CRM and business applications.

3
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:21,480
So for the people who may know the tech, but not the man who is Tomas Sunder outside of

4
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:22,480
CRM.

5
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,560
Well, thank you for that introduction.

6
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:33,320
So, yeah, well, I do go also by the name of the CRM keeper.

7
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:39,160
The reason for that is because I once used to be quite a good goalkeeper and soccer, not

8
00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:44,000
not the American football, but the European soccer.

9
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:49,440
So I thought maybe I would bring that name with me because it was a huge part of who

10
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:55,000
I was a long time while outside of work.

11
00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:59,400
And my journey becoming an IT professional is kind of my second thing because I really

12
00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,240
wanted to become a soccer professional first before most.

13
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:09,360
I just never really, I never really got the last level of what I needed to be to be 100

14
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,960
percent paid professional.

15
00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:20,520
But yeah, so that's kind of the reason I chose the CRM keeper parts and also try to play

16
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:25,600
it on the words because I also do keeper being a keeper as a goalkeeper and me also talk

17
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:31,720
always talking about CRM because I keep calling it CRM and not dynamics because I still think

18
00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:32,720
it is CRM.

19
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:38,480
So, I wonder if a few people that don't acknowledge all the new words always.

20
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,160
Now you went from goalkeeper to the gatekeeper.

21
00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,160
Yeah, I guess again, yeah.

22
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:49,720
Now, eventually I grew up from the soccer part and I'm a father of two.

23
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:59,280
And a happy husband, at least if my wife is listening, I'm a super happy husband.

24
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:05,800
My life has become more of a mundane thing and it's like, yeah, so I don't think I'm a very

25
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:12,520
exciting person anymore but I do enjoy my tech quite a bit and I do enjoy just hanging

26
00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:13,520
out with the kids.

27
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,000
So it's kind of my world is quite a bit different now than what it used to be when I was a

28
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,000
video.

29
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:25,320
And is there something you can take from the soccer to the CRM part?

30
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:26,320
You have to look at it.

31
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,240
You know, it's a great question because I've been thinking about that.

32
00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,680
A big part of me for the soccer part as there's two things actually.

33
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,000
So one of the main things is the aspect of winning.

34
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,000
Really love winning.

35
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,240
It is, I get a bit too passionate about it.

36
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,640
That thing I've actually had quite a hard time bringing into the tech world because

37
00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:52,240
it's like winning in tech isn't necessarily always about giving the best effort.

38
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:57,520
You know, there are many political reasons why you may win or lose a contract or you may

39
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,800
win or lose a higher that you're trying for.

40
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:07,000
So the winning parts is harder to control but it's still satisfying when we win but it's

41
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,280
harder to control in the ways that if I train even harder, I get even stronger.

42
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:12,280
I know it'll be better.

43
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:17,920
It's kind of hard finding that path at least I find that hard.

44
00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:25,080
But the aspect of team, you know, my whole life has been being collaborating with soccer players

45
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,040
as a team and having to deal with the different personalities.

46
00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:30,560
You know, there's always a diva.

47
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:31,720
There's always an introvert.

48
00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:37,400
There's always a really strong first as always a weak person and you kind of combine these

49
00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,400
to be a winning team somehow.

50
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,640
So I don't know if I'm okay.

51
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:48,240
So I lead a team of a lot of that I'm a part of a consultant.

52
00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:54,480
I don't know if we'll be listening to this but hopefully they see some parts of that

53
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,920
spirit in ways of trying to put together people and bringing up the best of them.

54
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,920
At least that's what I try to.

55
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,840
I'm not saying that I'm good at it but I try to figure out how to get the best out of

56
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,120
people in certain situations.

57
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:09,120
So our team is good.

58
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,120
Yeah.

59
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:17,200
So what the moment you realized CIRAM were more about people than the software?

60
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:18,200
You know what?

61
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:19,880
That took a long time.

62
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,960
I started out in 2007 with CIRAM.

63
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:29,760
So it's a next year is my 20th anniversary with the product which is I think it's kind of

64
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,600
cool.

65
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:39,400
But I remember the first years I was actually hired as a salesperson and I was like

66
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,760
I completely failed.

67
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,760
I didn't sell anything.

68
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,040
I didn't sell a single system but I tried as much as I could because I was really focused

69
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:55,400
on I was very eager to study in no college and you know you push the technology thinking

70
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,920
the technology is going to solve all your issues because I can here look at this opportunity

71
00:04:58,920 --> 00:04:59,920
super cool.

72
00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:02,720
You have these buttons you can click on and etc etc.

73
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,400
And you quickly notice that as a young person coming into a company trying to tell them

74
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,400
how to run the company in a better way.

75
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,880
You know speaking to managers that you know I've been doing this since you were in diapers

76
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,640
so I don't really understand why you think you can do anything.

77
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,440
What are you bringing to the table?

78
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,240
That's what they were asking me.

79
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,560
At that point I kind of you know it took me many many years.

80
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:30,400
I think many many years before I understood that the tech was actually very little part

81
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,280
of CIRAM.

82
00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:34,880
An implementation.

83
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,960
So I would say it could easily have been between somewhere between five you know year five

84
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:46,880
and year 10 somewhere around then I started to understand people more than I did the tech.

85
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:53,000
And at that point it's sort of made sense because it doesn't really matter what system you're

86
00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,200
implementing honestly if you do.

87
00:05:55,200 --> 00:06:02,400
So any system has changes and what does that affect the person that you're giving it to.

88
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,960
So it's like is this a positive change?

89
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,160
Negative change or just like an uncertainty change.

90
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,920
And you got to just understand how to navigate the people first and then the tech will be

91
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:13,920
good.

92
00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:20,080
But that is super super hard and I still struggle today to figure out sometimes how the people

93
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,840
are perceiving the technology that I'm bringing to the table and I'm not always certain that

94
00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:29,920
I am giving them a better day but I hope and I try but it is super hard because people

95
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:30,920
are so different.

96
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:35,320
There are so many personalities and it's really hard sometimes to get under their skin

97
00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,440
and to understand do we have a connection here?

98
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,520
Do we see the lights in the end of the tunnel?

99
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:47,600
And we want to go to that lights or am I still trying to sort of persuade them into this

100
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:55,080
is something cool and then just playing along because they want me to sort of like hopefully

101
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,200
bring something to the table at some point.

102
00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,840
So it's one of those things I say I'm still struggling.

103
00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:04,560
If I'm going to be honest after 20 years I'm still struggling to make sure that every

104
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:11,360
single time I deliver something we're certain that this will be a change they understand

105
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:19,880
as people in the process and how they work and not to focus on this button is super cool

106
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,200
because when I click it something shiny is going to appear.

107
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,280
That's actually a bit hard.

108
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:31,360
But yeah it took me a long time to answer your question.

109
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:38,240
After as many years how keeps you exciting about this year end topic?

110
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,080
That's a good question too.

111
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,120
Question you have here.

112
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,880
To be honest I have my ups and downs but I think it's just like in any type of relationship

113
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:47,880
right.

114
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,960
If you're invested in a person you'll have your ups where you're just like super happy

115
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,600
you know you're newly in love with something as some feature came out and it's like oh

116
00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,000
this I'm kind of pushing this is going to be super cool and eventually as you know Microsoft

117
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:08,280
will be they have their periods where they focus on tech and then suddenly change their

118
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,040
they change their focus quickly because something new and more important came out.

119
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:19,640
So I have my ups and downs and as I think you would compare to any type of relationship

120
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,440
is like whenever they release something new just like when the AI wave came you know I kept

121
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:30,880
away from AI for quite some time because I'm kind of waiting for it to be cool.

122
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:37,120
So I mean I recently spent like I was in the recent year with everything focused on AI

123
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:42,520
it sort of you know is the shift of not focusing too much of the core components but I think

124
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,400
our cool you know how to really work the system.

125
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:53,280
But now we start seeing that it's making sense these AI things you know so I just call them

126
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,480
things because there's so many of them.

127
00:08:55,480 --> 00:09:00,120
I'm not going to make one single thing because it's going to change this name anyway in the

128
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,080
next few years.

129
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:09,080
So just yeah the AI functionality is brought into dynamics together with Office 365 and

130
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,920
other tools for collaboration are now starting to make sense.

131
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:19,440
And then it's like then I get the new you know the new energy because this is what I wanted

132
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,720
to go out and talk to the world about because wow this is actually starting to look quite cool.

133
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,480
And again I believe like this is the reason why I stuck to this product for almost 20 years

134
00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:34,080
now because it is obviously the correct choice when you want to choose a C-Herm system.

135
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,440
Why would you ever want to choose anything else?

136
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,280
Because now we have a cool platform.

137
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:47,560
So yeah if you think you meet your 10 year old soccer boy time how would you describe

138
00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:52,200
your what's the C-Herm or what's your job?

139
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,560
I don't think I would be able to be quite honest.

140
00:09:55,560 --> 00:10:03,840
It's like at that point is like if you're talking about that you know being a young kid having

141
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,560
a great time playing soccer with your friends you know like okay one day you're just going

142
00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:13,880
to sit on a computer for eight hours straight at least.

143
00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,560
No you don't have a recess going out you're not going to be playing soccer but you're

144
00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:21,840
going to talk to customers about implementing a software that you know you're going to persuade

145
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,440
them that they need they may or may not actually need it but that's your job to persuade them

146
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,440
that this is going to be really great.

147
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,480
And it's like well the question is always be but why and I would have a really hard time

148
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:40,360
telling them well because I don't know you know it's I do notice it with my you know we

149
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,520
have small kids now two year old and four year old and the you know the questions that you

150
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,040
get from a four year old are really like you do question life sometimes like are is what

151
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,320
we're doing really that important.

152
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:58,480
I was like well dad you get to play when you're at work and like no I don't get to play

153
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:06,600
at all and I kind of wish I did so when I follow him to these sporting things that he does I

154
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:12,560
mean it's very low level just you know super super low level he just it's in a gennasium

155
00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:16,960
and they just run around all you know for an hour and they climb climb ropes or to climb

156
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:23,080
some things like a huge part of me just like which that was me.

157
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:28,320
But yeah explaining those things I don't think I really.

158
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,040
I don't really think I can but it's just the same thing I work in tech I'm a fairly techie

159
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:38,560
guy my father has worked in tech his whole life he's a very techie guy I honestly don't really

160
00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:42,600
know what he does as of today he's trying to explain it to me many times I don't really

161
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,840
understand what he does and I should be able to because I am a tech person so I'm guessing

162
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,240
it will be probably the same issue that I will have if I you know when my son gets a bit

163
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,160
older try to explain what I do.

164
00:11:54,160 --> 00:12:01,360
He'll just shake his head and say well it doesn't sound like fun.

165
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:10,240
So I think I also have a three year old daughter and she asked me and I think oh it's it's

166
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:15,480
really simple questions but it's also good business questions because you think a little

167
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:21,840
bit about oh how how how I do it and can I explain it it's it's I think the marketing

168
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,320
guy say elevator pitch.

169
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:31,440
Three year old then you cannot also sell to long time ago.

170
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,120
That's actually a very good point there if I could explain my job to anyone at that level

171
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:41,000
let's say three to five years old if I can actually make sense of it then I can easily

172
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,920
explain it to anybody that's actually a good pitch.

173
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,120
I didn't think of it like that before yeah.

174
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:52,680
I'm with with think I call it the old year and days versus the modern power platform

175
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:53,680
AI area.

176
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:56,360
How do you see the change?

177
00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:01,600
I actually honestly I find it quite hard and people think sometimes just because I'm an

178
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,800
MVP I know everything because I follow everything and I always have the answer for most things

179
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:12,520
because this is what I do but I honestly think this this change right now is is really really

180
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:21,040
hard because while some companies are not embracing the AI fully but that that could also be because

181
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:27,240
they don't they don't know how to I'm talking like other companies let's say have spot or

182
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,320
you know competitors of the next.

183
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,400
I mean I guess they will probably say that they are embracing AI but nothing close to what

184
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:40,600
Microsoft is doing right now.

185
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:48,840
It's one of those things where you just like I don't really know what what this will become

186
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:56,280
because one thing is for certain though the core of how we store data that will always

187
00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:02,120
be the same importance you know and how we structure data customer data so that's like

188
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:08,160
I do believe that me as a syrup person I am now not because of the AI I will no longer

189
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:15,600
be a person that builds too many UIs I mean that they might be over within a few years and

190
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,360
like how the application looks but as I suppose to be up left or down right and stuff like

191
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,600
that some of that navigation might be gone.

192
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:30,320
What I do still think I will have a value in doing is building the data model and talking

193
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:36,240
about again why are we capturing this data and what are we going to do with data but the

194
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:41,400
AI and this is where I really do not know what's going to happen but I do kind of see some

195
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:47,200
parts of it Microsoft seems to sort of think that we're going to just be interacting with

196
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:54,560
the agents and the agents are going to perform lots of tasks that might be the case but I

197
00:14:54,560 --> 00:15:02,240
also find that very hard to sort of imagine because it's a huge trust that you have to

198
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:08,000
instill into these agents and as of right now the agents have so much power and you believe

199
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,600
like do you really understand what I'm saying I mean even if I'm writing in English do you

200
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:20,720
really understand my sentence because I say like clean up my tasks right okay I just

201
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:27,160
deleted 535 tasks like this kind of not what I meant that kind of goes mid like clear out

202
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:32,560
what I need to do now you know what I'm saying so I am a bit concerned as of where we are

203
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:38,000
right now things will always become a little bit better but the prompting and just thinking

204
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,880
like my whole life is going to be prompting more than like actually seeing and visualizing

205
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:48,120
I have a hard time picturing what's next in the serum world and I have very hard time but

206
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:53,360
I do understand that we will be interacting with a lot with the agents I don't doubt that

207
00:15:53,360 --> 00:16:01,680
and I also see it because again serum not being a technical system more like a people first

208
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,080
I see the sales people they just glow up and smile when they can start prompting to the

209
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,800
get please do update my opportunity with this can you move the contacts that I have in my

210
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:17,840
outlook and match them into into the networks so I see them glowing up so because of that

211
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:24,640
they have more joy in doing one day tasks but it doesn't mean necessarily that I think

212
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:31,840
that is the right way to go but again we're gonna as because this is a human based system

213
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:36,600
we have to sort of just have to take it as it is and try to figure out the best ways to

214
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:42,720
work with that I guess but it is a super super hard question and I know everybody keeps

215
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,960
on sometimes telling us this is what's going to be this is what it's going to be like

216
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:52,080
but honestly I think we're going to end up in a sort of hybrid situation where we some

217
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,840
people just because their minds are built that way they are very structured they will like

218
00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:01,360
to see it's just like in the working in Excel they like to see the roles of data to be able

219
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:07,080
to navigate that visually and so the application will still be there and some people are

220
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:12,520
more I don't create them in a way they might be more of the agent based people that just

221
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:18,840
prompt her and not actually write prompt but they might talk you know use it as a what's

222
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:30,520
the Iron Man the the Iron Man the superhero he talks to his Jarvis Jarvis yes Jarvis I think

223
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,240
it would become honestly I think salespeople soon will be in a Jarvis situation where

224
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,480
they just you know they talk to their talk to their agent and their agent will remind

225
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:43,680
them a few things in a second ongoing conversation not typing but actually a voice based conversation

226
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:49,280
that makes a lot of sense yeah and it will also probably be doing a lot of the outbound

227
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:55,080
calling for them you know booking meetings so their jobs will be different but here's

228
00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:03,240
one thing I think I do believe as long as there will be human beings making some decisions

229
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:08,960
I still feel the power in let's say closing a deal is meeting a person sometimes face to face

230
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,800
being able to talk to them and building trust because AI is not going to build trust it's

231
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:19,120
just going to help us move along in a process but I say you know maybe we will get to the

232
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:25,920
closing part faster that's great or the decision process yes or no a lot faster that is

233
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,840
great so we will use our time more efficiently but I still believe that when it comes to

234
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:36,440
decisions that have financial impact that certain things like being in present people with people

235
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:41,920
or at least I hope is still going to be important because if that if we lose that part of you

236
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:48,520
know a good handshake and in an interaction with a person then I then I certainly that I'm

237
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:55,240
certain I have no idea what I'm going to be doing at work anymore I've read I think

238
00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:03,560
it's more gardener and they they write read that that half of the CRM projects fail I think

239
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,760
especially in enterprise have you have you an idea because I think the technology it's

240
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:15,920
so good actually well actually I think that that statistic was true 10 years ago to be on

241
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:21,280
it and wait before AI that I've heard that same statistic almost throughout every single

242
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,520
year is like everyone keeps saying that CRM projects out they just fail they just fail and

243
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:32,160
so waste the money for many but I mean that's again back to the people part it's very hard

244
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:38,560
to get the whole organization invested in the reason why we're implementing structure

245
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:44,480
because in your company could have been built very successfully even look fortune 500

246
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,960
companies very successfully built based off an excel sheets or many excel sheets but you

247
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:54,000
have very good employees but the thing is that once you want to scale that's the where the problem

248
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:59,840
comes because when when you get more people you don't necessarily get more people at the same

249
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:06,240
IQ value if that makes sense that you had with the starters they need to have the original idea

250
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:11,280
that were the creators of stuff you get more people to scale but they will not necessarily be

251
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:17,440
as high value in the way employees but they need structure people that need structure they need

252
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,760
systems and then suddenly that's when you use excel sheet sheets and things like that don't scale

253
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:28,080
and but once you try to implement these things you know they work for a little part of the

254
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:33,200
organization but you might not have gotten it all the way up to the upper level and I also see a

255
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,240
lot of times where like we have had failed implementations not that about it I'm not perfect in any

256
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:43,840
means but I would say the times that we fail is the times we can't get the organization invested

257
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:48,560
into what they are getting they just they think they're buying a product and that they can sort of

258
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,280
like the next week after they get the product they can just start using it but again this is a

259
00:20:53,280 --> 00:21:00,720
transition to people using tech and when they don't invest into that part that's when I think we fail

260
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,640
but then again that's a very hard sell because you got to tell them this is more people thing than

261
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:14,960
it is a tech investments it's people and tech yeah it's it's I think change management is you know

262
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:24,160
the bus it is super hard I got I mean if it if it were easy it would not be as you know if change

263
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:31,440
management were easy people wouldn't have that as your expertise so but that's where you really

264
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:38,400
notice people that have that knowledge who it makes a huge different in projects my gosh is such a

265
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:47,440
big difference I think a lot of people write they they make change management but I think it's it's

266
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:56,640
the really complicated topic because yeah you have understand tech I think but we also have

267
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:08,800
understand how how you get humans in the yeah so yeah what's makes users actually want to use a system

268
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:17,680
like a CRM so what what is your tip for this I actually have a bit different approaches to

269
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:22,320
a few things so because we it's typically in CRM we could say like we have sales we have customer

270
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:28,880
service and we have marketing those are three very different personas extremely different so if

271
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:36,960
you were to deliver CRM with only sales here is the challenge sales can work without a problem

272
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:43,040
when CRM is done all you need to do is pick up a phone and call because you have contacts in your

273
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:50,240
outlet you mean sales can still perform quite well without a CRM system in worst case they'll just

274
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:55,600
default over to some sheet spreadsheet or other lists that they will just be updating right so in

275
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:04,640
many cases we see sales as a more of a used as a reporting tool host activity not pre-activity

276
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:10,560
post activity if you can get them and this is where AI actually will start making a lot of sense for

277
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:19,040
the for the sales people if AI as agents in the background will be capable of really generating a

278
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:27,360
next best action so you can start your day knowing oh that's a good idea I'll call about that or

279
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:31,760
actually I'm completely forgot to follow this up because now you know it's just gonna it's just

280
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:38,480
gonna be your what we call it's assistance it's gonna be a real assistant for you that's gonna

281
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:44,880
make sales people see the benefit of using it and giving the system data but I also see them within

282
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:50,000
sales super simple things that I do almost in all my implementation for sales every single time

283
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:59,360
we have a win I post a win card in the teams sales chats with a with a gift is a gift for the tag of win

284
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:04,400
so it's like they get the little summary of what they just closed and a little gift that comes

285
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:10,320
pops up in the teams and everyone can like that that little simple thing is a small motivation for

286
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,800
that actually push the data to the CRM system because they love the feedback they get when they do

287
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:22,560
a good job and I think that kind of goes back to the days of when they had the bell in the in the big

288
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,560
room so that when they want to sell you would bring a bell just sort of like everyone pick it up

289
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:32,400
but it's true it's it's simple mentality that drives sales people you know to start again the

290
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,480
acknowledgement for good work so those are small things that would do for sales here's the thing

291
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:43,200
that for customer service customer service in both late implementations are technically harder

292
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:49,520
but people wise it's easier it's because they are normally more structured people

293
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:56,240
and they understand that they need a system to actually answer you know their emails or phone calls

294
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,040
or every you know whatever it is but the interesting part is without that system they cannot work

295
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,720
almost so when delivering customer service I almost say sometimes that we are now business critical

296
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,600
because without this your system your people will not work correctly

297
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:19,600
so that actually implementation turns out to be I have I have more success rates on customer service

298
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,800
implementations almost always a success but sales is more like you have to get the people right and

299
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:32,960
here the other wildcard is the marketeers because the marketeers they are so invested in whatever system

300
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:39,440
they came from because they have you know put in time either it's HubSpot or MailChimp or God knows

301
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:45,840
what type of systems they have you invest a lot of time and it takes and it's our understanding

302
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:54,000
Microsoft is hard because it brings together so many texts into one application in marketing is not

303
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,040
just sending out emails it's not just customer journeys it's also things like booking events

304
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:05,040
managing portals with events there are so many more things and they can send centers and all

305
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:11,200
these there's so many things they bring together that it's technically actually challenging

306
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:18,720
implementation and once it's up and running we do have it takes a while to get them to understand

307
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:24,640
the value it brings but once they understand the holistic picture of a 360 sort of oh wow we're

308
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,600
actually now in direct contact with everything sales is doing every single lead that we produce

309
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,720
from marketing with lead scoring and everything is now being fed automatically to sales sales is

310
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:40,960
doing something about it or sales produced something and now we have a journey activated you know so

311
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:47,600
they see the light because they don't have a separate application working you know outside of

312
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,800
their CEO or IMSA system they see the light eventually when they see that all data is now feeding

313
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:58,080
marketeers a lot more information that they can use but it's also one of those things it takes time

314
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:03,760
so it takes a bit yeah it is not one of those from day one normally that they understand

315
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:09,440
their real value but eventually they say oh wow this is this is the true 360 picture you know so now

316
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:18,160
we finally see why we invested in this yeah yeah I think also from my perspective there are also

317
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:24,960
another part of important people that are the sponsors or the management and I see for me is

318
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:31,600
that often I see they they see yeah they are CRM but they see only management system for them

319
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:40,480
and I think it's a reason why companies are enterprise use ERP systems but when we look at the

320
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:49,280
customer relationship part what did you think the management yeah stillness understand here

321
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,640
I honestly don't think some some companies I would say they don't they don't understand much

322
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,480
if that was your question like when they implement I don't think they understand much but they also

323
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:05,600
don't invest much time into this but that that's what I think it's all about how we sell this because

324
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,000
if you if you go through our biggest competitor Salesforce they're kind of a bit they they

325
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,160
they normally do sales a bit different than what we do because they go directly to the

326
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,640
sponsor and not to the management and they say these are these are the reports for focusing on

327
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:25,040
and from there they start working back eventually and this is also so much true I'm going to say

328
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,880
that because you don't mean I'm a Microsoft dude I'm not a Salesforce dude but I have taken over quite

329
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,840
a few Salesforce cases where it happened that they started out with these great presentations like this

330
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,800
is what we're going to create for you guys management is super happy about it then they move over back

331
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:47,120
to the tech part of it and they try to implement all the tech to match the output that the management

332
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:54,720
wanted but again they are good at engaging management in a way that saying this is what we can bring

333
00:28:54,720 --> 00:29:00,000
to the table for you guys and therefore the management is interested in investing that money

334
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:09,040
maybe sometimes I feel like you know in Sierra implementations we are better at in some cases

335
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:14,560
making the tech people like us because they you know like the Microsoft they know that we understand

336
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:21,040
the tech somehow you know we start building from there and we are not good enough always as you

337
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:26,720
say you know getting the management on board early enough and if they don't invest their time

338
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,920
in understanding what they're getting they suddenly say that but we were expecting this

339
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,400
it's like okay but our data model doesn't really allow for that so

340
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:45,120
and I agree with you management is is another role I should have included that is actually

341
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:52,400
super vital role yeah and what do you think about the company culture which impact have it on

342
00:29:52,400 --> 00:30:05,680
yeah success and implementation it's very good question I feel sometimes it's it's hard honestly

343
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:14,320
I would say it's hard getting CRM all the way out into the company if you don't get all of the

344
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:21,920
if you don't get like customers the sales and marketing active it's very hard to sort of get

345
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,760
it into their DNA because if you just end up with a solution that is let's just say it's for sales

346
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:33,680
it doesn't really happen but if you just spend for sales normally that lives with the sales manager

347
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,920
if that sales manager were to sleeve and another sales manager comes in they might have a different

348
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,600
preference and suddenly like we don't even know if we're going to keep you know then I have

349
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:49,040
x anymore because I have a great you know history with product x or y or sets and then it's like

350
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:56,000
so that's that's a bit of a hard thing but here's one thing I do sort of think Microsoft is I mean

351
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,600
I might be a little bit critical to Microsoft at times but one thing that is good about

352
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,360
that what they do also is that they have a platform story that is kind of more unique than

353
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:11,040
more other companies so you notice a lot of companies say we're going to be Microsoft first

354
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,160
because we decided to trust Microsoft and we want our whole IT to understand that we're going

355
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,840
Microsoft you know we're not going to do Oracle we're not going to do Salesforce not going to do SAP

356
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:27,840
or stuff like that and that's kind of helps the sort of culture DNA-ish type of thing because then you

357
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,640
know they're going to be invested in what we have to break to the table somehow but

358
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:40,640
I think though if you found a company that has figured out how to solve that every single time

359
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:47,360
then he would have then he would never ever have someone leaving the platform for another

360
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:55,600
you know solution I don't know but maybe it's also maybe it's also a healthy thing you know because

361
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:02,000
changing sometimes isn't necessarily a bad thing it's more like it gives you this perspective

362
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:09,040
because if you don't change your solutions every you know every now then maybe you will never

363
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:15,200
sort of gain the understanding of what the total opportunity picture is because I mean Microsoft is

364
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,400
not the best serum solution in the world neither is Salesforce you know all they're probably good at

365
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,760
some things that we are bad at and we are also good at some things they're bad at and so understanding

366
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:35,760
what's what is really hard I think it's also what kind of company you are I think yeah

367
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:47,520
this was one one company they the small company and they are cell dynamics as solution and then I

368
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:57,360
go on on their website and they use Hapspot for yeah so I think it's it's it's it's also a pricing

369
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:03,760
question you will always be a defend you have to defend the pricing of course but yeah I've found

370
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:10,640
really funny so let's stay a little bit funny what was the most ridiculous thing you ever seen

371
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:21,200
start in the CRM oh my gosh okay so the thing is that you back in the old good old days it on prem

372
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:26,240
you know you didn't have to think about storage at all so because basically just store whatever

373
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,720
that's when we started seeing what I would say was really the the start of whatever was low code

374
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:37,680
applications so we're talking way back when when we like before 2015 on premise dynamic solutions

375
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:44,160
they I mean we're talking we're talking people building things these what didn't want SharePoint

376
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,960
you know so they were actually building SharePoint within dynamics just to have documents and metadata

377
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,360
and everything as I it did not make sense at all but technically you kind of could

378
00:33:54,880 --> 00:34:02,160
so it's one of those situations where it's like fine and the second you got to get online is like

379
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,840
the first thing you do is try to move out big files from the system like that was the first major

380
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:12,720
job we have move everything over to SharePoint because that's where it belongs now as I think it's more like

381
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:20,640
I haven't seen really many well except you know storing lots of passwords and clear text you know

382
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:28,080
which is dumb just by an infrastructure perspective but I don't think I've done I've seen anything really

383
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:36,160
ridiculous except technology wise this doesn't make sense no I don't think I'm really funny stories

384
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:42,320
about that a really absolutely stupid but more than the sort of like okay what can happen of course

385
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:49,280
sometimes is that if you incorrectly configure the email connection that's one thing though

386
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:56,240
you can by accident act and not accept but if you do it really bad you can actually have auto tracking

387
00:34:56,240 --> 00:35:03,200
of emails so that has happened one time I do recall a

388
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:10,960
manager of a fairly for a Norwegian fairly important company having all of his emails

389
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,480
tracked into the serum system and they were open for everyone to just go in the read

390
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,760
so there are a few sensitive things that came out about a few employees

391
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:28,480
so of course this is more of an unfortunate kind of thing than yeah

392
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:38,560
yeah a MVP you you get all these future informations on all these events

393
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:44,800
what I don't know if you've forbidden to speak about but what

394
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,520
well have to kill you but it's the dynamic in the next I don't know three years

395
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,360
again I think what I can say about that I do think that we're going to see a huge trend

396
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:01,920
over to these agents and actually not just AI being a fluff because I honestly I've been very

397
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,400
critical in many situations about AI just being fluff I still do think it's a bit fluff

398
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:14,560
I do hope that Microsoft will take all of the agents they have which is probably like

399
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:20,720
within dynamics I'm pretty sure it's like 10 15 20 I don't know how many they keep on making new

400
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:26,000
agents all the time and sort of saying that you know what we need there's not many

401
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:31,360
behind the scenes it could be many agents but we need one main orchestra you know orchestration agent

402
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:39,520
to the end of the first I've suggested that being clipy a good old word clipy

403
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:46,720
what why don't we just call it clipy and that's our main agents no but honestly just interacting

404
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:53,440
with agents I think will become a huge thing and I and this is not confirmed from Microsoft this is

405
00:36:53,440 --> 00:37:00,720
just me you know what I think we might see more and more I I don't think we will go into serum as

406
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:04,960
what is now a model driven up I don't think we will see that as much we will see a lot more

407
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,600
interesting approaches as to smaller solutions doing smaller things just like what can this

408
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:17,360
have initially was supposed to be and I by camisaps is not very easy for anyone to like you have to

409
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:23,680
you have to be skilled to make a good camisap but to be able to make let's say a generative

410
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,240
a-trick code app you don't really have to be skilled anymore soon at least because you basically

411
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:34,480
say to AI what you want and AI understands the rules and will perform thing within the boundaries

412
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:40,640
of those rules for power platform so I think our applications will be hugely different

413
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:47,520
some people will only be prompting to their serum system because they can not because the

414
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,920
service is more efficient but I think if they think is really cool and for the rest of the part I

415
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:57,200
think they will you know it would be less model driven apps and more creative applications

416
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:04,000
that work with the serum data so it will give in regards to call it let's say

417
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:10,160
lightweight governance I think more than ever consultants will have to do a lot of heavy lifting

418
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:16,800
work to make sure that data input is strictly regulated so we can't just have like bad data coming in

419
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,120
it will like the AI will also understand that you have to provide minimum of these fields

420
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,800
then we can process data correctly so there are a few of those things that I think

421
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:31,680
behind the scenes will be pretty boring work being done lots of pre-validation plugins kind of things

422
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:37,840
but for the users the end users I think they will have a whole new world of I don't like this

423
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:45,200
application I'm going to make my own and we'll be saying sure okay that's fine yeah it's the

424
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:53,040
it's a like the shit engine out topic but we would really think that the trial and there's a

425
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:59,040
traditional serum workflows will they stay or will that all be done in future by AI agents

426
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:07,920
I mean I know people want to say that they've said so many times in different posts like oh serum is

427
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:14,400
dead is it though I mean Salesforce is doing I mean they're outperforming Microsoft and

428
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:21,040
sitting number of sales right and they still keep calling things serum I don't understand

429
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,120
I mean again this might be me being too old but I don't understand

430
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:31,040
again if if AI agents are going to do the sales process for you and actually close a deal

431
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:36,080
that means that some that we have AI talking to AI what's what's the purpose anymore

432
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:44,720
and then the users are they going to be AI agents actually using a system and talking to an AI agent

433
00:39:44,720 --> 00:39:48,640
on customer service because they have a problem and they're together going to solve a problem

434
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:55,600
for who for us as people or for the AI agents so I don't know I just don't I just don't

435
00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:03,280
clearly see that I still think this is like for the next many years I think AI's will make us

436
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:10,800
more efficient it will make us more productive because again not a single IT projects that I have

437
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:17,040
ever heard of was completed saying oh we have no more feature requests everything that we ever

438
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:23,600
wanted has been delivered thank you so much shake hands newly it is always stopped because the budget

439
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:30,880
was done and the budget was that you gave me let's say a hundred euros I completed everything I

440
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:37,040
could for a hundred euros within that time but now when I have AI I can complete more within those

441
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:42,640
hundred euros than I could before so whatever I can do is better but I don't think it's going to end

442
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:48,560
we always have new features like well something we need to do so again I don't I don't foresee the

443
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:57,600
terminator whole AI world taken over taken over for us but hey I mean if that means I can go play

444
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,600
soccer at the age of 55 you know just that's what I'm gonna do I woke up and played some soccer with

445
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:10,240
my kid and that's kind of work okay I'll be happy with that so I have look a little bit into

446
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:19,200
LinkedIn and I have four quotes what did you think about this quote the first the CIR and that's not

447
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:26,080
a technology project it's a business transformation project I like that quote I mean as I didn't

448
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,320
really think about it before you sort of you said the topic I'm right before this you know you

449
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:36,960
said me the the link in the in the LinkedIn and you're like this is kind of what the approach I want

450
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:42,960
to talk about the human side of CIR and business applications you know I don't think I recognize

451
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:47,840
that enough you know the we sometimes get so stuck and focused on the technology part that we

452
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,400
forget that it is exactly what you just said I think that's a great quote honestly it's

453
00:41:52,400 --> 00:42:00,720
another one it's AI want to replace consultants consultants using AI will please those who won't

454
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:09,600
I probably to some extent yeah okay so that's this typical clickbait things but yeah to some extent

455
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:16,640
true just because if I don't use AI and I'm still doing JavaScript's or I'm doing you know plugins

456
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:22,640
and I'm not using AI I am producing so much slower than anyone else so it eventually yeah anyway

457
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:30,640
and here it's my my favorite it's so simple the best to see a man is the one people I truly use

458
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:38,240
true I I completely agree with that but that's again trying to figure out those small things like

459
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:42,960
what makes sales actually in potato and I think AI is going to do that for us so we're going to see

460
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:49,200
AI sales people being more reliant on CIR and system because again AI cannot give you anything

461
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:54,640
unless you have data is AI is useless without the data and AI also needs to store that data or

462
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,880
conclusion somewhere and that's also the data they need to store somewhere so I think it's going to

463
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:06,000
help sales customer service is okay for me and marketing I think if anything if we can just simplify

464
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:12,640
everything again maybe some agents they're helping them out do orchestrating the journeys all those

465
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:20,560
things it's right around the corner kind of stuff I agree it's the one CIR and me used that's a good one

466
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:29,600
I was also thinking about what makes the people use the CIR and and is this simplicity is a training

467
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:39,360
was leadership so I was also thinking about and not found the yeah the right solution or idea

468
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:53,280
yeah and automation with empathy creates bad customer experience without empathy maybe I'm not sure

469
00:43:53,280 --> 00:44:02,640
quite understand but could that could you translate that to CIR? If you're just doing everything

470
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:07,200
automatic and again back to empathy part is the human interaction and human relation

471
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,320
that there still needs to be some part of people meeting in between and that would be the empathy

472
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:19,520
maybe okay I don't know but if that were the thing I would say that's fair yeah

473
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:27,920
and now then we jump in the fast fire round okay fire out fire out remote work or on-site

474
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:36,720
on-site okay for this question that's okay in context is because I am a I am a person

475
00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:40,400
most of my job is trying to figure out what people need and what they want

476
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:46,800
what when I figure that out of course being able to work remote is great but you will never get

477
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:52,160
you will never get a true understanding of a person remote once you're in the same room that's

478
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,880
when you get the true understanding who they are and how they work. I want to next question

479
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:05,280
as I have to say I do also a conference the M65 ComputNet but what's your favorite Microsoft event?

480
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:14,160
well that's a good question I don't really know I really enjoyed the MEP summit this

481
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,600
thing and I think I can default to that just to say it's simple I enjoyed sort of meeting so many

482
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:27,040
eager people when I was there so it's just really awesome but we do a few things in Scandinavia also

483
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:32,000
yes of course not to be biased about certain events but I happen to host the

484
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,920
or be a part of the hosting process of the Nordic summits and so and we also do a hackathon

485
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:45,200
ACDC, Arctic Cloud Developer Challenge every year so I do have a few

486
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:51,040
is that one app you would say you kind of live without one app?

487
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:59,040
oh wow um actually it sounds strange but I try to delete as many apps as I can because I do

488
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:04,560
notice that they take away so much time but right now honestly I am a sucker for Instagram and Reels

489
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:10,720
so I we I spend way too much time after the kids go to bed just looking at funny memes,

490
00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:15,840
funny Reels and just like just having laughs and I just yeah my friends who just keep setting stupid

491
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:21,600
things each other all night so that's takes too much time. what's for you the most overrated

492
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:31,680
buzzword actually? agenda gay I don't know that I'm not saying uh uh overrated buzzword is oh my gosh

493
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:37,920
there could be so many it just if just listening to any keynote for Microsoft and just

494
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:47,120
get you word they keep saying but it's about I can't remember now oh there are so many that are

495
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:52,800
just so priceless in the way that they they generate words that no one really has ever heard before

496
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:59,440
and they will just you know I don't honestly I keep forgetting I should have had some gold here sorry

497
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:06,640
I'm probably but once we hit this you know once we hang up this call I'll be like oh that is exactly

498
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:13,760
what will you say it's the most unrighted feature in the dynamics?

499
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:27,040
well so honestly the platform itself is extremely well put together but no one will ever really

500
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:33,360
understand that no one will really or be consultance will but a customer will will seldomly understand

501
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:39,120
the complexity of the security model we have out of the box the response of necessary application

502
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:48,160
brings the uptime and like just a model driven app is ridiculously boring my god it is boring

503
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:54,160
but it just works the things that I've done back in like way back when like and I my grand of them

504
00:47:54,160 --> 00:48:00,400
to the cloud and everything the same things are just working it is just it's just a super boring platform

505
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:06,240
visually sometimes but it just works and that's kind of what I say a model driven app is always a bit

506
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:11,760
underappreciated because it's never visually appealing but it just keeps on working and working and

507
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:17,360
working for so long without having to do the last step and especially also everything that I do is

508
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:22,320
typically classical workflows even though everyone wants to do the pyrodates classical workflows

509
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:32,320
never fail plugins never fail workflows they fail sometimes so yeah so your favorite Scandinavian food

510
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:41,920
not so streaming but actually well Scandinavian food is like I don't really know what Scandinavian

511
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,080
because we have we have taken so many things into our cultures like the holidays they say like we

512
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:51,760
have every Friday every single Norwegian will do what we call the Friday tacos and it's like we

513
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,360
pretend it's almost like an Norwegian food but it's like it has nothing to do with Laura but every

514
00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:05,280
Friday everybody buys tacos and we talk as it but I mean I'm I'm I'm I'm what you call a I honestly do

515
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:11,440
not care too much about the quality of food I really just enjoy eating so you can you can serve me

516
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,280
anything and you can know that the people I know me know this but they serve me anything and I'll be

517
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:27,360
super happy so I'm not very picky on that okay um yeah what is the one thing you hope listeners can take

518
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:35,840
away from this episode I think honestly it should take away the fact that the one quote you actually had

519
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:43,120
there may have been the first quote that you were picking up with LinkedIn about the human side of

520
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:50,080
things and this is not a technical implementation sitting back as a new consultant and understanding

521
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,720
that everything's technical that you will implement and it does not matter how cool that button you

522
00:49:54,720 --> 00:50:02,000
have is it is nothing about the tech there it is all about what that button provides a value for

523
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:08,080
the person that you're bringing to the table again about this being a human side of technology

524
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:12,640
that's actually the way you're going to succeed with any zero position not dynamics I think that was

525
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,160
I really enjoyed the fact that you brought that to the table because this has been a very

526
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,560
non-technical type of discussion about CERAM and it was super super interesting for me just to

527
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:26,240
think about this because I do tend to sort of forget that it is so much more important than

528
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:37,360
and what we sometimes think it is yeah so yeah then I say thank you for the boy of trial and the record

529
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:46,560
and you have to leave so I have a lot more questions but yeah the time is running so yeah thank you

530
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:51,120
so much I really appreciate you having me here and me listening to me just yap about you know

531
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:57,200
you obviously let me say and I like to talk about CERAM but yeah do you just talk about CERAM

532
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,040
the whole CERAM and nothing about the CERAM so I hope you got

533
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:10,000
anyone that wants to listen to me about CERAM I always love to do that so yeah I really really

534
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:16,240
appreciate me for having you know being on here so it's also good closing so I can say all the links

535
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:21,440
and information are in the show notes different from your Thomas and yeah thank you so much for your

536
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:27,040
time and I yeah say goodbye goodbye

537
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:37,040
[MUSIC]

Mirko Peters

Founder of m365.fm, m365.show and m365con.net

Mirko Peters is a Microsoft 365 expert, content creator, and founder of m365.fm, a platform dedicated to sharing practical insights on modern workplace technologies. His work focuses on Microsoft 365 governance, security, collaboration, and real-world implementation strategies.

Through his podcast and written content, Mirko provides hands-on guidance for IT professionals, architects, and business leaders navigating the complexities of Microsoft 365. He is known for translating complex topics into clear, actionable advice, often highlighting common mistakes and overlooked risks in real-world environments.

With a strong emphasis on community contribution and knowledge sharing, Mirko is actively building a platform that connects experts, shares experiences, and helps organizations get the most out of their Microsoft 365 investments.

Thomas Sandsør

Head of Businesss Applications

The Facebook page is highly unofficial, but it's still a great place to see people having problems and trying to help each other out

Slack group is put together by former MVP's and has a whole community there with lots of active channels. Sometimes participate in a few discussions there regarding tech and how to overcome some obstacles.

The Human Side of CRM & Business Applications with Thomas Sandsør [MVP]