Beyond the Prompt: Architecting Multi-Agent AI Solutions with Microsoft Copilot & SharePoint with Reshmee Auckloo [MVP]

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Hello everyone and welcome back to the M365FM podcast.

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Today we are diving into one of the most exciting areas and Microsoft ecosystem.

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We hear a lot about Microsoft co-pilot, AI agents and autonomous systems.

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But how do it act really build enterprise-ready solutions that business can trust?

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What separates the cool demo from a product-ready AI solution?

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The answer to answer this question, I'm joining by someone who spend their days helping

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organization make M365 secure, governed and AI ready.

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Our guest is Microsoft MVP, Modern Workplace Consultant, International Speaker and an

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active contributor to the Microsoft P&P Open Source community.

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She specialized in Microsoft 365 governance, SharePoint, co-pilot extensibility, co-pilot

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studio and the one of the hottest topics today, architecting multi-agent AI solutions.

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So please welcome, wish me out.

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Thank you for the kind introduction.

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I don't need to introduce myself anymore.

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Awesome.

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Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about you and especially your journey into Microsoft

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technologies?

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Wow, that's been quite a long, a long, a long while since I started working at Microsoft

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technologies back when I finished my degree in, while I was still like, emerges.

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And I need just happened in my first job was like a C# developer.

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Actually, not it was VB, VB.NET.

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VB.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.NET.

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I see sharp developer and I've done a few on, on ELP systems at that time.

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And then when I moved to the UK, that's when I kind of spend the onto SharePoint.

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And working, I was kind of working as a, at a particular small company, which is visioned

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as in project server. And when you do project server online, it, it's kind of depends on having

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a, be SharePoint site and all the platform, the, the active directory at that time.

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Now, it's all kind of changed.

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So I kind of had like, like from the old school, like on-prem, and then, and then soon after,

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it was like the Azure cloud, which was like a game, like another, a, a, a, era, another

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innovation called everyone trying to move onto the cloud.

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And, and yes, and then, and then a kind of stage onto a particular platform, but nearly,

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since I was like in the UK, so it's more like 15 years, 15, 16 years, so seeing it all,

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building solutions and some prime and on, on the cloud.

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And now, looking, and to have like to adopt, be, implement like all like, the, the AI functionality

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at big business, get the best out of the platform.

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So yes, it's been a very, a very kind of evolving career in that space, never really static.

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And right now, it just feels so quite overwhelming in the sense, like things are changing so quickly.

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And to keep up, it just feels impossible to be honest, even when you try to like to build

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a solution, it's like, you think like you get it right, and then suddenly you're here, like,

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or, or, they have like a new completely new experience, a new interface, and it's just like,

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it's, it's, it's just, it's just a fun game.

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Yeah.

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Or like to keep all on your toes.

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You have come known for helping organizations adopt Microsoft 365 responsibility, especially

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the topics, governance and compliance.

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You are really famous for what, what do you, for responsibility, adoption actually mean?

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Um, I would say like, um, yeah, security is very, very, very important.

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And then when you consider about co-pilot, um, roll out, to be able to do it securely, it's,

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it's kind of simple just to turn, I mean, just switching it on, it's, it's easy.

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But like really, the, really like to, to be able to do it in a secure, compliant way, so

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that you to prevent any data leakage, for example, like, like, like, a pilot, like, how, how

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it is, it can easily, it will kind of, um, surface any data and user have access to, but

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then it'd be data itself, but it's not like properly, um, it has, doesn't have like the right

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permissions, uh, like following the least, uh, privilege, uh, principle.

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It can kind of, um, really, um, put your organization at risk by surfacing all those data,

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so you need to have like a good platform hygiene, uh, in terms of ensuring, like your, for

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example, your team, channel, shape, on side, have a correct, uh, security, apply to them,

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and myself, I kind of wrote a lot of, um, uh, scripts to have, um, all those, uh, try, like,

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um, to, to find out, uh, if, um, if ever, we have like, the correct, uh, permissions,

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because one of the thing, which is quite hard with shape, born still, then we have co-pilot

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is to be able, like, to find out, like, um, on, on a, on, on the side, like, uh, where, um,

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if you want to like, to highlight the food inventory or what permissions have been applied

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at, at the site, at the file level, at the folder level, at the library level, it's, it's,

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it's very hard out of the box, so I kind of, um, contributed a lot of, uh, power, PNP

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power, shared scripts, uh, to VEP and B, uh, repository, and I, I know, many, uh, uses have,

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um, reused the, uh, those scripts to have to find out whether, uh, uh, they're, they're

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tenant, uh, all the shape, one side, or secure, and it's quite, quite nice, like, to receive

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a lot of messages, like, uh, thank you, like, my spot really have, but, uh, as you do have,

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like, over, like, for party tools, you could use, but, um, but it's not, uh, that means it comes

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like, addition and cost, and you have shape on advanced management, but again,

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shape on advanced management, it can be a little bit, um, in terms of customizations, it can

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be a little bit more limited, but if you, no, have to write on code, and you have, like,

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with PNP power, shared, you can do a lot, which is based on your particular requirements,

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yeah, so I would say, yeah, permissions, but then you have, like, other things, like, um,

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like, using a purview, just to be able, like, to audit monitoring, like, whose age of, um,

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of co-pilot, of, um, nipc.org, uh, AI tools in your organization, uh, that's very important as well,

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and you can kind of, um, readies, um, what you want to protect, as you send Steve Data,

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and, and really like using purview, you need to have to, kind of, put all those guard raids in place

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before you start drawing co-pilot, that's what I would say, and it's the same, like, um, yeah, with, um,

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with, with, with, with, with, with, you say, uh, AI, and everything, you, you, it's very important, like,

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to think, security governance, uh, before trying, like, to go for the speed, um, to, to deployment,

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onto production. Yeah, that's, that's cool. Um, when, when customers approach you today,

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what are their biggest concerns regarding AI? I would say, like, um, um, it's kind of the, uh,

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general kind of, um, concern that we've seen, because right now, people, most people are aware,

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like, what is AI, compared, like, to one, two, three, two years ago, um, and, and they're a bit more

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conscious, so, and when they come, they, they, it's a no longer about experimentation, but more about

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building solutions, uh, to solve, like, a particular problem, but of course, they still have, like, uh,

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the, uh, we come so, like, um, knowing, like, we're the mutation of AI, um, about, like, the, uh,

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in, uh, in accuracy, hallucinations, uh, and, and again, it's about, yeah, the, the security

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risk, whether they are compliant as well, is, um, especially, like, I'm based in the UK, say, there's a lot, uh,

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of, um, of strike, um, idea of events like, do, EU, AI, Arc, or DPR, or Hippau, or Salk,

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say it's all those, um, and, and I think people are generally kind of, but, we really think about

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the security and rest first, before they try, like, do, um, build, like, the, uh, solution, and I think

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the other one is, um, is sometimes, um, depending on what they want to do, is, doesn't mean like,

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you actually need to be the AI solution, needs to look at other ways, like, automation, um, if

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automation can fix, um, reduce case, monographer, automation, like, does it always needs to be an AI

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agent? So it's always like, about the education and trying to find, like, what's the best, uh,

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solution for the current? Um, is, uh, AI, it's, it's, uh, especially Microsoft, they, they drop,

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uh, I feel every day, uh, some new, uh, updates, or, or stuff, um, how, how did you personally keep,

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keep up? I'm, uh, I'm a little bit over there, actually. Uh, I, um, the, fortunately, I do feel

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like, well, a great, uh, link to now it's, and that's like, a easier way just to keep up to date,

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because even like, we had, uh, build, which was three weeks ago, but again, build was more focused

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on this time on, uh, developer space, like, on Foundry, um, uh, and GitHub, uh, very much less

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on Copa, Cedrio, and set a week, they had like, we released like a whole new experience, which

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became into Pravew, and then one week off, they became into a journey of availability. And, and really,

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it's like, um, yeah, it's just like, everyday, I'll go into LinkedIn and just like, look at the feed,

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um, I'll, I'll post by people I followed, and that's like, I kind of like, oh, what, a new user

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interface, and now it's becoming a G, and then one week after, again, when you interface, um,

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that became into, back into preview,

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which was, like, quite of a relief,

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but the same times,

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because I was presenting at a particular conference

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in CAVAR Studio, and I was like, "Mm, seems like

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one of the presenting is already out of date.

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"Why shall I do?"

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So I felt a little bit of pressure,

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like, trying, like, to get off to his fade,

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like, to play up, to play with the new,

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into a phase and try to get something,

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go build some acudemmo,

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like, showing the difference,

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like, between the old,

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classic experience versus the new experience.

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Especially when you talk about multi-agent architecture,

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it was, like, kind of, quite,

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quite, because my session,

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X-Astrak had, like, showing,

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like, the difference between Charlie and Agent,

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and Connected Agent,

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and then when you're in experience,

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you don't have, like, concept of Charlie,

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and any more, when you're just like, "Mm."

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But I had to still kind of explain it,

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because all the documentation,

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and all, at lots of the content videos

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was still kind of talk about it,

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so it's good just to show, like,

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the Charlie agent, where he's, like,

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in a classic experience,

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in the new experience, like,

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you don't have Charlie, and any more,

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but it's something different.

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You could use, like, skills, for example,

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to replicate some of the functionality,

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or even you could use, like, workflow,

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the workflow, again, last night, another thing,

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because you have, like, the workflow,

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which is the new way, like, instead of Agent Flow,

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which is a classic flow,

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and then you have the new flow,

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which is a workflow, again,

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which is kind of different thing,

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and then we've been to the workflow,

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what you could do, you can hold, like,

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in line agents, which is completely different,

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in line agents where you can,

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it's kind of similar concept to TA agent,

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because it will further the same lifecycle of a workflow,

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but then it's not that reasonable.

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So, yeah, so it's kind of,

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it's hard, it can be quite stressful as well,

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but with your best, like, to just do,

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however we could, we can,

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and just like getting help, like, from all those,

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to share the knowledge, which is very important,

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so you may ear at age,

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where everything is changing so quickly, just to keep off.

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- Yeah, you were all over. - And thank you too, Rene.

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- Who was on these amazing events,

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like the blur Microsoft build?

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What surprised you most about Microsoft's AI strategy, actually?

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- I think the way, like, one of the announcement

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was around the scout, which was the new,

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like, what we call autopilot,

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which is, again, quite, which is quite surprising,

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but it's quite, like, interesting,

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because we used to talk about co-hilot being UI for AI,

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for the Microsoft platform,

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and we keep, when we try to explain co-pilot,

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it's co-pilot, and not autopilot,

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and so, really, now we have autopilot.

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So, again, it's something, yeah, and it's called,

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it's meant, like, how am I supposed to position it?

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It's, like, for everyone, like, to use,

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in a way, to co-pilot,

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and it's running, like, in the background,

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as your person assisted,

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keeping tracking everything that you're doing,

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and hoping with all your tasks, like, in the background,

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I personally didn't try it, but it's something,

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it's something which is powered by the OpenCool,

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but it has, like, all the guardrails in place,

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like, in Microsoft, there's a show, like, a demo,

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where someone tried to ask the autopilot

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to clean up, like, the whole desktop,

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but that, of course, it just, it kind of,

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didn't work, so it's kind of,

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it's going back to work within the 13 boundary,

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but, of course, yeah, you need, you can't really,

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you need to have, like, an in-tune, in-eability device,

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and the GitHub Enterprise,

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yeah, it will be quite good to see, like, the evolution,

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like, when people are, like, using it, and try, like,

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to, to, to comment, like, on any, any particular concern,

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but they could have, yeah, so, that was kind of, uh,

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the scout, and, and the other one,

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which was quite interesting, was around Microsoft,

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having their own, uh, models, language models,

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I don't know, I like to pronounce it, my, my, my, uh,

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my, yeah, my, possibly my, yeah, all the different languages,

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which was, again, they're looking forward,

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like, to be, would like to use them,

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is a way that Microsoft is moving, is more,

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like, especially, to, so, billing,

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and you look at, it, help, copy,

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it, um, and now, uh, with, um, copy,

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the, uh, studio, as well, um,

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a lot, kind of change, like, to be, consumption-based billing,

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instead of having, like, uh, one line sits for everything,

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so, so, based on the consumption, your, your costs,

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but, kind of, very, say, okay,

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it's something, like, keeping an eye on,

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it's quite easy when it was just, like,

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emphry spike, or, by the way, since,

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one, uh, one fixed fee,

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but now, you have to be a bit more careful,

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related to that.

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So, I'm hoping, like, with the Microsoft,

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but, language models, it will be a little bit cheaper

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to, uh, to run those models, hopefully,

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and, and will have, like, to reduce some of the costs,

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uh, of course, um, before picking any model,

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you need to do your own evaluation,

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whether that's, like, the best, uh,

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the best, uh, options,

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both to choose for your, for use case,

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and it's always tricky, because even, like,

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emphry, it's quite a good one, then, when you think,

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there's, like, thousand,

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nomen, thousand on models,

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and, but emphry, we do have, like,

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something, like, to allow you to evaluate the models,

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based on certain benchmarking,

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but, again, like, trying, like, to know,

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whether that's the best, uh, model, like, to use,

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uh, it's, um, it's tricky, I would say.

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Yeah, maybe, uh, loads of announcements from Bird,

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as well, just, like, you could only take the whole session.

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(laughs)

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And, um, yeah, if someone asks you, we will co-pilot.

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What, what's the first question you, uh, yeah,

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will ask them?

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Um, um, if they want to co-pilot, um,

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I know, a lot of it is kind of being driven by, uh,

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by what, like, over what's happening, like, in the market,

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and everyone wants, like, to be, um, on the lead,

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or not in the lead, but at least, like, not to feel, like,

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they are falling behind, and try, like, to keep up,

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and try, like, to, uh, to, to, kind of, embrace it.

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I would say that's a good decision, that they'd try, like, to, uh, to, to, to, uh,

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to go on and then board co-pilot for end-users,

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because of all the benefits that it provides.

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Um, but again, what we could see is, um,

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a lot of organisations, not like, really, you're ready,

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like, just to roll out co-pilot, yeah, so,

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it could be because we are, like, um, still on-prem,

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like, on the, um, the, guessy platform,

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which, as it's really, um, co-pilot,

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and, and really, the first thing would be, like, um,

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to move, um, the whole, like, the platform, um,

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that they have, of course, it's, it's kind of a lengthy process onto the end-

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and, and for 65, and, and, of course, um, setting all, like, we, um,

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be bound to raise the guardraids, our arms, so that they can use, uh,

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co-pilot safely, before we actually roll out co-pilot.

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So, yeah, so the first thing would be defining out whether the kind is ready for it,

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and then you have to go, like, for a readiness, uh, kind of, um,

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workshop trying to see where they are at and, and just have in that journey.

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Yeah, what would you say is, it's a, uh, co-pilot, or, uh,

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I roll out, um, more, um, I keep project, or is it more,

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a business transformation initiative?

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I would say it has to be a whole business transformation initiative,

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rather than IT-led, because the people know their, their tasks, uh,

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they will be able, like, to set up the benchmark,

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in as, like, trying, like, to identify, like, the return on investment.

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It's, like, the end, the business people would be better equipped to make all those, um,

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assessments rather than an IT person, and, and, and really, it's, um,

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But everyone will have to be on board and trained to get, like, the best out of co-pilot,

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say, and the 80 out there just as someone who's going like, to support, like, they're all out.

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And support the business, and, yeah, and just help out. But, yeah, it's all, like,

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a business. And really, we need to have, like, the leadership buying as well, who believes in it,

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like, all in all its potential, and trying, like, to, yeah, to kind of, uh, drive it.

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Yeah. Let's move into one of your specialty. Yeah, it's co-pilot extensibility. What are the exactly

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as, as this mean? Okay, so co-pilot is, um, whatever Microsoft provides out of the box, say,

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could be like, anything girl, which you see, like, on the Amphits bike, a pilot chart,

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on SharePoint, it could be like, in your apps, uh, upload everywhere. And then you have,

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what used to be called, like, maybe one year ago, two years ago, custom co-pilot.

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And that's the call, like, agents sound. So co-pilot extensibility is, um, aren't really, like, building agents.

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And, um, yeah, I know we'd be terminologies, but different when you talk about it, or, or, or, or,

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or agent, but it's kind of same. And it can be, like, anything, anything custom either you build,

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like using, um, agent builder, which is kind of simple from the Amphits bike pilot,

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or you can have, like, from SharePoint as well, but you can create, like, SharePoint agents,

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quite, like, simple use case, like, which can be done by any end user, just, about, just using

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a little bit of prompting, and they can build something. And why you want, like, to build, like,

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agents instead of using, um, my chart is, uh, because you have, like, a reusable prompt, but, you know,

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like, if you kind of taping the same prompt over and over again, like, to get the same output,

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for example, you want, like, a weekly report, you might want, like, to, to put that agent for, like,

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to be as simple as, uh, SharePoint agent. I'd like to do a report if all your data is already in SharePoint.

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Um, or you can have co-pilot studio as well, which is more, like, towards the, um, local, um,

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power, uh, the make, but the maker is a system, the movements, um, but again, it's a little bit, uh,

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I will say it's, like, completely low code because it can have, but you can get a little bit more complex

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with, uh, code when you use connectors and other than you experience your hard skills, your skills,

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you can have, in-built, scrap, spit, um, script. And as well, um, when you look at some,

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anthropic skills, we have, um, a lot of, um, references to, uh, to, to over, kind of, um,

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script files, like JavaScript or Python or something. It can be quite, quite complex, even if you say,

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cover a studio, being a local, doesn't always have to be. And you have another one, which doesn't, uh,

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get talk very, um, a lot is the agents talk it. agents talk it is an extension within VS code,

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which allows you to build like with the creative agent. And that mean like, the creative agent in

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that sense is the agent will use the same orchestrator, which go pilot use, but again, you can

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bring your own instructions, you can bring your own, like, um, plugins. So on cp servers, um, you can

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quite, you can do quite a lot with agents talk it. And then if you go towards a pro code, um,

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options, you have a Azure Foundry, and you can use like, um, um, over options, like,

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the log change, the Microsoft agent framework. And it's, it's, um, it's just like your imagination is,

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is your image really? And you can, you can, you can't, you can't, when you go towards that level,

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you're choosing like your own model, because, uh, with go pilot, you're kind of restricted with, uh,

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unlimited, uh, models that are provided onto the platform. And when you go to a frondry,

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you can never reach the thousand of, you can pick any other model. And as well as you can build your

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own orchestration using the long change, it will be Microsoft agent framework. Um, yeah, so it's

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quite a lot. So be global access, the day again. So very, uh, huge, broad platform. And, and you just

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kind of need to know, like one, two, use which depending on the use case. And, and what, what will,

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there was Microsoft Graph, uh, place? Yes, uh, Microsoft Graph, one of the thing is, um, it's, um,

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it's free to make, um, uh, cold, like press API, cold, Microsoft Graph. And, um, like, we've been

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in Kaba studio, if he's agents, okay, um, or even if he, I'm not such a, uh, foundry, but I'm pretty

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sure there should be a way of connecting, uh, to Microsoft Graph, reconnectes, uh, all plugins in

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agent's toolkit. But one of the thing, uh, what Microsoft kind of, um, announced, uh, in, Microsoft

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Ignite last year was about the, um, IQ, all the different types of IQ, uh, the work IQ, fabric IQ,

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and, um, the foundry IQ, lots of IQ and, and during build, it's, uh, three weeks ago, the

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announced that the web IQ and the Microsoft IQ, which kind of, I'm combustible of it. So, Microsoft Graph

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is still very important because, um, when you look at the work IQ and all, like, the, uh, endpoints,

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which are available, it doesn't give you the full spectrum to be able, like, to do everything you

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want. So, Microsoft Graph is there, so there's a bit more rich in, in terms of, what the endpoints

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it provide. But still, I would say Microsoft Graph doesn't do everything because a lot of times,

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when I have to do something quite specific, I still need to rely on the, uh,

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Shebhorn, Rassapri, all the C-Some, like, back on the days, the client side of a checker model.

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I know, sorry, old school, but it's good, like, to still know the foundation and how everything,

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is kind of stuck, uh, and worked together. But of course, like, the, the model is everything

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towards, um, the MCB and work IQ do provide, um, ready, available MCB, which, uh, to, to do quite a lot of

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different things. But again, it just depends on what you actually wants to do. It might not always

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be, um, be feasible to just rely on work IQ, MCP, all Microsoft Graph is still need to know, but Shebhorn

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Rassapri, uh, and see some, unfortunately, it is like, it is, like, it's only like this year, for

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example, Microsoft Graph had it end point to create Shebhorn side, and you just have to think like,

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what, what should we, like, go from, from ages ago, but it's still very slow, like, to catch up,

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and a lot of the thing probably, literally, um, in the Rassapri or CSOF first before it gets, um,

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added to the Microsoft Graph, all, all probably to work IQ. But we'll see, I think shebhorn,

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which is always good, you know, um, all the possible, um, all the possible routes, I can

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give me half back to build a customization. Yeah, um, actually when I go into LinkedIn,

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there's, it's one topic I come by, my timeline is completely flooded with, it's, it's multi-agent

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solutions. Uh, so what, what is, um, multi-agent system? Um, yeah, so, say, it's, um, it's having,

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like, you think, like, a team of people, each one, uh, each one is specialised in their specific

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domain, um, knowledge, uh, and able, like, to do setting activities. It's similar way, like,

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thinking, because one particular person can't know everything, can't do everything, so, so trying,

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like, to build a multi-agent solutions will have towards, um, towards getting, like, a more

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accurate and more powerful than solution. Is imagine if you're building one, um, agent,

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which does everything in your organization, from IT, sales, marketing, and then you cannot

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equip it with all the different tools, but it needs to be able to do those, and the knowledge,

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as well, a lot of different knowledge, your agent is going to struggle, you'd be able to reason,

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to find, like, the correct route of actions, but it needs to do for a particular, for a particular

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task, because how's that to enumerate for all the different tools, all the different knowledge,

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and sometimes it may be confused if the knowledge of the tools named have similar name or,

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um, or not the same name, but it's kind of almost a similar name. So, so it can be quite hard.

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So having, like, smaller agent, just specialised, like, in its specific knowledge, with a subset of,

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uh, tools, subset of knowledge, subset of instructions, much less, it's going, like, to perform,

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better, and then what, when you do multi-agent solutions, uh, one of the thing is, you'll need,

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like, to think of the orchestrator, or parent agent, so you will have to have, like, um, like,

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like, if you consider, like, with the team of people, you might have, like, a manager, or a team leader,

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who cannot delegate the jobs to, to its team members, so similarly, you have to think of the parent

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agent, orchestrator agent, and then base, like, intent of the user, it will kind of determine

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which agent that trigger, and your parent is a needs to be very, um, very, kind of, it is a needs to

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be very, um, loaded with loads of instructions, which, which are agents, will, all the connected agents

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will have, like, everything it needs, uh, to do, uh, once it gets triggered. So your parent agent,

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will be there just to orchestrate, like, one each of the connected agents gets triggered, and,

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they'll, and, and, and, and then everything. Sorry, we get cannot be executed, and, uh, as per the

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instructions of our connected agent. So, so, yes, so, we have integers of having, um, like, a multi-agent

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solutions with allow you to scale, um, um, and have, like, more accurate results, and as

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well as it's easier to maintain, to test, uh, because it's smaller, just with a few instructions,

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uh, tools, knowledge, say it's kind of easier, like, to test as well, and if you think, like, in terms of

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plug and play, if something, you think like, a agent is not doing as it is, you can take it out,

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and you can put, like, another agent in easily. And it, in terms of multi-agent architecture, it's quite,

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it's not only, um, only on the same platform, so if you can still, like, go by the studio, you can,

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connect cross-platform as well. For example, you could have, like, um, agent, like, in fabric, um, which is,

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which kind of, which is like, on the platform, someone already built that agent, and instead of

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rebuilding it, you can easily create a connection to that fabric agent. It's similarly, like,

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you could have, like, um, agent hosted in, uh, Microsoft Foundry, and from Copa Las Studio, you can

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create a connection to that, uh, Azure Foundry. So, like having a multi-agent architecture, it

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allows, like, to bring, um, to, to kind of make use of, um, to bring all of the, like, the agent across

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different platforms, like, it's working together, because you might have different reasons why you want

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to have, like, something quite specific in Foundry, uh, doing some quite, uh, complex, um, tasks, for example,

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that's a, for insurance claim, um, kind of scenario. So, the back end, you might want to do, like, um,

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to have an agent to, to detect fraud, for example. So, you might be using, like, something in Foundry,

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which is, like, a different model, which is not, uh, really available in Copa Las Studio, and, and,

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and then from Kobayost Studio, you do have the capability to select your model,

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but the list is quite still limited. So you have to think, separately, you might want to

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build an agent on different platforms, even like on the Empress 5, Kobayost chat using Agent Builder,

404
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:39,560
so you'll have different agents built on different platforms, but you want to bring all together,

405
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,280
memory agent architecture, kind of help as well in that particular instance.

406
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:54,680
One topic is also when we talk about agents as autonomy, how much autonomy should an enterprise agent

407
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,040
receive from your perspective?

408
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:05,480
Yeah, that's like another, it depends on the use case, I would say.

409
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:14,760
For example, one simple use case is like, if an email is received into

410
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:23,320
email inbox to kind of process that email, for example, you think of a support desk system,

411
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:33,000
you might want to have an agent to go for an inbox and do a triage to see what to determine

412
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:41,320
the severity or which teams need to handle it and to assign you to back to the team,

413
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:50,120
and as just determining the time that it will take to kind of process that particular request,

414
00:37:50,120 --> 00:38:00,040
and to send the outcome or response back to the user who sends the email initially.

415
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:08,120
So it depends on use case, this kind of example of autonomy, it gets triggers when the email is

416
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:15,080
received, so you could have other triggers, for example, on your shareboard place, for example,

417
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:23,640
you might have like an other application, which, for example, if someone sent, let's say,

418
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:31,960
submit like a receipt for travel expense, for example, and then once it's submitted to your database,

419
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:38,040
which could be shareboard, or it could be anything else, and then have a trigger which creates

420
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:45,800
an approved task for someone to be able to approve it, or you can even have like a, be able to

421
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:56,520
approve it as well, depending like if a request meets all your travel expense policy document,

422
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:02,120
and yeah, why not, it can be like, but to approve as well, so you could have an agent,

423
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:09,320
which does it, and then the payments get triggered and sent to the user who raised the travel expense,

424
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:16,920
and of course, if it's a little bit more, if it doesn't meet the travel expense policy,

425
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:23,160
then someone will have to money your review and try to find out what is happening and try to ask for

426
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:30,760
rest of it, so it has to save a lot of time, like, right, by the route we think the amount of work,

427
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:37,800
like if someone has, you know, an approved, everyone of them will be approved, the request will be

428
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,840
reduced, I'm lucky to be a burden because we have an agent, which does it, of course, you have to

429
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:48,920
define the guard read, and the boundaries under which it can automatically be approved,

430
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,720
so it does have like, its use case for it to know me, but of course, everything will have to be assessed

431
00:39:53,720 --> 00:40:03,800
so about its use for this. Another topic, when we do talk about multi-agents, it's the model context

432
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:12,520
protocol, or an NCP, what is it, and what is the different, I say, to in microservice or to an API?

433
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:22,840
I would say like, NCP, it's kind of a wrapper around, like, all like the different APIs,

434
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:30,440
like, for example, I mentioned about the work IQ, NCP, which is provided by Microsoft

435
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:36,920
out of the box, so you don't have to build your own NCP, if you want to utilize it, of course,

436
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:45,000
if you do have like, another application, which doesn't have like, its NCP yet, your custom

437
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:54,680
application, you can build your own NCP server for it. So it allows, like, one of the advantage of

438
00:40:54,680 --> 00:41:04,280
using NCP is it has a lot of different tools, readily available, so actually kind of, instead of

439
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:15,080
creating, like, for some, if you look at Kovar Studio, if you have different APIs, so you'll have

440
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:23,560
to create different connections, like independent, okay, not independent, but like a custom connector,

441
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:33,000
to API call and then define all your security boundaries, but if you use NCP, Microsoft IQ, NCP,

442
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:40,680
for example, let's say, outlook, and I'm not sure what work IQ, email, NCP, I think it's

443
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:46,920
quite email, let's see if it all could be something else. So it does have, give you a lot of the

444
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:56,760
tools ready to be used, so you can tap in easily onto those. So it kind of makes it a bit easier

445
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:07,560
for the developer, who is building the solution to leverage NCP instead of API, but we're only

446
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:15,560
thinking, I would say, because NCP has, it can bring a lot of noise into your applications in terms of

447
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:26,120
one NCP, like, can have like 10 to 20 or 30 tools, can create some noise, so again, I would say

448
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:34,760
on that instance, and show that you're unable to tool in NCP that you actually want your

449
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:44,760
agents to be able to do, for example, if you have like my email, NCP, if you want your agents to use it,

450
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:53,960
just send email, you want to disable everything, like, create email, or do delete email, you want to

451
00:42:53,960 --> 00:43:01,640
disable it onto your NCP tools, so that your agents is allowed, has only access to the tools it needs

452
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,880
to do its right, so it's something like just to be, to be aware of.

453
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:16,840
I think a little bit now everyone can build their multi-agent systems, but what implication

454
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:26,360
had this on, yeah, I think there are kind of new employees, everyone had, what roles do identity,

455
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:35,480
or enter ID play, and what roles do governance, especially peer view, become in these systems?

456
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:45,080
Yeah, what's it like, especially like since Ignite last year, Microsoft announced like the agent

457
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:57,800
Physics 5, and now it became into GUE, now I think, response, or three weeks ago, which is

458
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:06,680
really, really interesting, so the agent Physics 5 will have like to solve some of the concern that

459
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:14,680
users have related to governance for agents, you know, exactly what they are doing, what data they

460
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:23,240
have access to, and they have like their own identity, which you can kind of control,

461
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:30,120
similar way, like to a user having an identity controlling access, so today they are even blocker

462
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:38,840
agent in even like, an entral ID as well, because in the entire ID you will see the agent

463
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:46,360
similar way, do you see it like a user, and you can kind of have a little bit more control now,

464
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:53,480
like without agent Physics 5 it's going to be harder, and the agent Physics 5 is integrated,

465
00:44:53,480 --> 00:45:03,000
that with peer view defender, the entribe, or like the tools that need to be able to like to see,

466
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:11,240
you have like one source of truth, one control pane, where you can do all those things,

467
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:23,240
so again, and the based on what is happening, you can take actions that you cannot protect,

468
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:29,560
your data, proven, the page, extra, so yeah, so identity and governance, that was something

469
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:40,360
which was unorthodoxy, nothing in that last year, which is that created, take it, and a big leap forward

470
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:47,240
into ensuring like everyone, or we are building like, the agents which are secure and scary.

471
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:55,160
And what role do you set a meta play, or some of the play actually in this agent world?

472
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,080
Sorry, would be the question again? Yeah, what role do you set a meta that have some

473
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:08,680
the play in this agent world? Yeah, if I was something which was a little bit

474
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:16,840
a miss, I think right from the beginning, where like, special and good part, it would be able to

475
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:26,200
to reason on the contents of a file, but not actually take into account like the metadata,

476
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:32,680
which are assigned to the file, like all your content types, or any custom columns you might have

477
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:43,880
or onto your libraries or list, the metadata do play a very good deal. It does, it's very important

478
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,840
because that's how like views is searched, and that's how like right from the beginning, especially

479
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:56,920
with the role out of Ampsix 5 or SharePoint, having like a strong information architecture is something

480
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:06,120
like we always advise the client and metadata, custom type, taxonomy, and everything are very

481
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:14,120
important, and then we be co-pilot when it seems like to be in your ring, those, but I think now,

482
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:22,040
I didn't try to co-pilot, but I need to try to say it, but definitely like now you have like co-pilot

483
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,920
in SharePoint, which is used to be called the only SharePoint, previously used to be called knowledge

484
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:34,040
knowledge agent, and before I was called syntax, it has lots of different names, you don't know what's

485
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:43,480
going to be called in the future. It's very powerful, it does reason on metadata, for example, if you

486
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:53,560
have a list of invoice, and you are said to provide you a sum of all like the invoice which happened

487
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:59,400
the last week, it is quite a very good job, like to reason on those metadata and to give you a good

488
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:04,840
response. It's getting better, so maybe not always give you a more accurate answer, but always check,

489
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:12,120
but it's improving, but again, into some metadata, I'm not so sure, it does it, but the way I get

490
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:19,400
around it is using Azure AR Search, so using Azure AR Search you can create a connections to your

491
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:26,360
SharePoint library, and within that you can define the metadata you want the Azure AR Search to

492
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:33,240
capture the reason on, and you can kind of, and then you can connect the Azure AR Search

493
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:41,000
to your co-pilot studio, and you can ask questions on those metadata, and it will reason on those.

494
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:50,360
So that's a way, like a workaround, I found like getting from a metadata details, but of course there

495
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,640
might be other ways, but we have to see, or even like out of the box, I'm not so sure, that that's

496
00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:03,400
something that metadata is very important. And information architecture, a lot of companies, I think,

497
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:12,840
it's the fat boy on the football game that's sitting outside all the time, is this information?

498
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,360
Hashtag shall now be coming, yeah, a superhero?

499
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:32,280
I would say, yes, it's still relevant, and it's still like the backbone of your document

500
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:39,160
management system, if ever you're moving, because otherwise it'll become difficult for users

501
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:50,440
to query, to search, and it will become kind of a big mess. So it's better, like even before

502
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:56,920
like starting, just put in place like a strong information architecture, and it will eventually help

503
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:06,840
your ER and co-pilot out in the ultimately, one of the metadata, or a kind of being

504
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:14,120
index room, the co-pilot, but we'll see, about that, but it's still for now, there's still ways

505
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:23,800
like you can kind of make sure you're utilizing your strong AI, of the framework or design,

506
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:32,360
of what you put in place. So keep a focus on AI, which is very important.

507
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:42,520
Oh, we're running a little bit on Skyvercy. So, yeah, I have an every interview I do a quick

508
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:48,600
fire round, so I ask a short question, and you say, what comes in your mind?

509
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,120
So my first one is, what's your favorite SharePoint feature?

510
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:59,000
Sorry, SharePoint? What's your favorite SharePoint feature?

511
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:09,640
Oh, SharePoint feature. Oh, I think I'm enjoying the co-pilot in SharePoint, because it's

512
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:19,640
even if it's new, it's kind of take it to another level in terms of what she can do.

513
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:28,360
Like, for the last SharePoint hackathon, I've used it a lot, like, to do a lot of the manual stuff I would

514
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:35,800
do, like creating the libraries, creating the color, creating the list, like even generating test data,

515
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:45,880
and even like to add skills to co-pilot in SharePoint to be able, like, to, for example,

516
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:52,440
to generate a report based on the data about how, I know it's just a demo, but like,

517
00:51:52,440 --> 00:52:01,800
the potential is great, but again, I would say use it responsibly, because again,

518
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:10,280
co-pilot, SharePoint, you can easily kind of create a lot of chaos as well, if it not used for a birthday.

519
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:19,240
Yeah, RAM gets the very expensive, and you get a new laptop, and it's the only

520
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:32,680
came around one Microsoft technology, which one should it be on your laptop?

521
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:47,160
Weany because it's a way that I can easily do calls to other people. I do have Zoom as well,

522
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:55,720
sometimes because depending on what people like, to kind of the, the, the preferred methods of

523
00:52:55,720 --> 00:53:01,960
communication, that I think, Teams is the one which I use the most as like the external

524
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:11,320
collaborations, so I would still like to have it. Yeah, and such a Nadalya comes to you today and say,

525
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:16,600
I give you unlimited engineering, you source of money and so on, for one feature, what will you

526
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:27,480
build? Oh my God, that sounds like, really interesting. I've seen one of the pain points of customers,

527
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:36,760
as I can see, is having like a strong, like governance tool, even like Microsoft, is trying to

528
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:43,160
plug the car, but like we show up on a dust management, agent physics, but still doesn't do

529
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:49,000
everything you want because the clients might have like really, really custom requirements for the

530
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:59,960
ones like to be like to police, for example, like a user created a lot of libraries, which doesn't

531
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:07,720
have like, be, be corrected data or something, that could be like a simple use case, but again,

532
00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:14,840
is I would say like to build like a strong like governance, so policing agent to help

533
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,240
clients do a better job to manage, to manage the tenant.

534
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:23,000
Edroy, I finally or quote palette studio.

535
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:30,040
Um, not everything needs to be an agent to publish,

536
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:39,240
there's one other thing about having like a strong governance of policing agent is

537
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:48,280
I'll be able to access space the signals and data, which is not, you don't really have

538
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:55,720
already the available, that you need to use a little bit of automation in the background to

539
00:54:55,720 --> 00:55:04,600
get all those data, put it somewhere as a, as a central pull on information, have your agent

540
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:09,800
reason over it, though I would say it would be a combination of both like automation and,

541
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:16,040
and AI, it could be perhaps in foundry or copilot studio, because one of the things, like

542
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:21,480
differentiator between copilot studio and foundry is perhaps if you use copilot studio,

543
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:26,920
both potentially you will bridge like a limit where you can't do anything behind,

544
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,840
and you might have to switch to foundry.

545
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:36,520
Yeah, when I think people come to, to you, to the UK, what's the, what should they eat?

546
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:37,720
What's the best food there?

547
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:45,880
But so interesting, because it all depends, like I think the, I live in London,

548
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:54,600
they, it's very multicultural, so you can get their cuisine from all over the world, like Chinese,

549
00:55:54,600 --> 00:56:03,880
Italian, Vietnamese, they're, love African, European, French, it's like, you're kind of very

550
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:14,360
pampered, so it all depends like on what they would like to try, but I know, like fish and chips

551
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:24,440
are very popular, and the, like again, burgos, hot dogs, but again, that's something very American,

552
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:33,880
but, but yeah, so, so I would say it depends on what the person wants to try, and yeah, London is

553
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,280
a good place, like to find anything you want, you don't need to go to any other country,

554
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:42,680
you can try Italian, you can try Chinese, you can try French, and then we,

555
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:50,440
yeah, the last time I have the, I wasn't UK, I got huggers.

556
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:57,560
That's when you go to Scotland, yeah, possibly in London also, in my view places where you can get

557
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:03,400
huggers, I won't say, like you dog get huggers in London, most potentially, yes, yeah, I'm never,

558
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:13,240
I don't know, I just like, I never felt brave enough to try it yet when I went to Scotland,

559
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:21,560
because it do have it as part of the breakfast menu, like if you go and stay in a Scottish hot dog,

560
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:27,800
it do have it, and you're just like, oh, I need to be brave, it's a lot to encourage me to do it.

561
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:35,720
But when I say, I was the more lucky guy because my daughter had seen this black pudding,

562
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,080
she has tried this, she don't eat it.

563
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:54,440
Yeah, so when you did deploying a co-pilot in the company, what's wondering, coffee, tea or red water?

564
00:57:54,440 --> 00:58:06,920
I would say tea because I don't really drink much coffee or red food, so I just like,

565
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:17,160
oh, I just have a crow with water. Just keep hydrated, I would say, yes. But I think, yeah,

566
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:22,360
the city on co-pilot is very easy, yes, it's just like trying to get ready for a roll out,

567
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:27,720
which is a little bit more painful, a little bit more hard work to do.

568
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:36,440
Then my last question is, yeah, you do a lot of community contributions. What is the, where you most

569
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:49,800
proud of? I would say since October last year, I was invited to be part of a, to be part of

570
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:58,840
a maintenance team for PNP Barcher. I've been contributing to PNP Barcher in terms of

571
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:10,600
scrap samples as well as adding new components for quite a few years now and to people like to be part

572
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:18,120
of a maintenance team to be quite close. It's something, I'm forever grateful, like, to go to them,

573
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:24,680
I say to invite them to be part of the maintenance team and to people like you to work, like,

574
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:32,520
we owe in, which is a further, alternative, our share, and Koon, it's just incredible experience,

575
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:39,160
and we are just, I think, fantastic. I look forward to each, or our bi-weekly meeting, where we catch

576
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:47,400
up, which is, yeah, it's something I'm really proud of. Yeah, then thank you, Rich, for being here,

577
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:54,360
and spend the time with me and share all the insights. I really enjoy this conversation,

578
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:59,720
because we moved beyond the hype and into the real engine during challenge of enterprise AI.

579
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:05,800
We explore governance, co-pilot extensibility, multi-agent architecture, grass, and a little bit

580
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:12,760
security and security and compliance topics. So, yeah, I think, yeah, there was a lot of big takeaways

581
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:19,560
for the listeners, and yeah, thank you for being here, and yeah, I hope I see you in next time in

582
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:29,480
another episode. Thank you so much for being with me as well, it's been brilliant talking to you.