Power Platform Governance Without Killing Innovation: Security, DLP, Environments & Citizen Development with Michael Roth [MVP]

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Welcome back everybody to the M665s and podcasts.

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Today we are talking about one of the most important

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and often misunderstood parts of Power Platform governance.

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Power Apps, Power Automate, PowerPages,

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Co-Pilot Studio, DataWerrors,

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and the wider Power Platform gives people,

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yeah, gives people across the business,

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the ability to solve problems really quick.

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The accessibility is the magic,

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but it also creates real enterprise questions.

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Who can build what?

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Where do business data go?

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How do we keep environments secure?

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How do we prevent shadow IT without becoming the team,

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say, no to everything?

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My guest today is Michael Rod. Michael has been working as a consulate since 2011,

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and has been a part of the IT and Microsoft ecosystem since around 2015.

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His experience spends from Microsoft 365,

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collaboration technologies and organizational consulting,

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give him a broad view of what it really takes to make digital solutions sustainable.

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Today, Michael focused on Power Platform governance,

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administration security and organization enablement.

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He has organization,

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practical governance frameworks from DLP strategies,

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and environment architecture to custom and

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mentoring, lifecycle management,

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and adoption tuning built directly from the platform.

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This perspective is simple, but Power Platform is not a hobby tool.

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It's an enterprise software that happens to be accessible.

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The goal is not to slow make us down,

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but it gives the clarity,

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confidence and God-wraiths to build faster,

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saver and gives more business value.

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Michael, why come to the MC65 with M podcast?

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It's great to have you here.

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Thank you very much for the invitation. It's great to be here.

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Just a small clarification right at the beginning,

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the goal to give the maker clarification is

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the goal of my governance approach and not the goal of the Power Platform.

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But I think that's pretty clear to everyone who's listening.

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Sorry, it's for both in Germany.

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I wasn't Germany. It's really odd today.

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I think it's a little bit of a put on the break, but thank you.

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Michael, before we go deep into governance,

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security, administration, tell us a little bit about your journey.

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You started in consulting 2011,

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then moved more deeply into it.

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Yeah, the Microsoft ecosystem around 2015,

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what drew you into this world?

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Pure accident and a little bit of laziness, I would say.

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In 2011, when I started my journey into consulting,

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it wasn't necessarily IT consulting,

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but it was more organizational development,

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where I worked with mostly managers

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in all kinds of ranks towards how to create a team,

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how communication works, how change management actually works,

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what is necessary into that.

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So that was more or less my origin.

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And during this time, I stumbled upon a project

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that was closely reloaded later to IT,

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to information classification, so IT security, actually.

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And I managed the...

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Intramanagement plan, how this company would build up

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an information classification system.

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And there was so much work, because it was a big enterprise.

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At some point, we even maxed out our excel tables.

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We had excel tables with all the list,

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all the information that we needed, and we maxed it out,

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so we had more than 1 million lines.

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There was a point where I realized the thing with the computers and IT,

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maybe they would stick around,

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and maybe it would make sense to dive more into the technical part of life and all work.

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So it's kind of out of the blue,

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I applied for a job at a IT company,

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and they were like, "Great, do you have any clues?"

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And they said, "No."

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So there was a little bit awkward interview, to be honest,

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because I got lots of IT questions, and I couldn't answer them.

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In fact, I think last week, I thought about one of those questions,

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and I still have no idea where this comes from.

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There was a guy, and he was like, "Out of the blue,

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do you know what a forest is in IT?"

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There was like, "No, never heard that term before in IT."

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And I still haven't.

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I know that this is now the collection of all the entries in your enter ID,

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something like that, but there was...

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I was completely lost in that interview,

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but somehow I managed to build, I think, a car park management app,

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or something like that.

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Each app was list and all this stuff.

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There was way before part of that form,

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when I even started in that.

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Yeah, and then I kind of was stuck in IT,

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and focused on change management and introduction of Office 365 and M365.

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What is teams and planar and project, and how does it work?

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So I would say the soft skills guide side of IT.

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And then, because I'm really lazy,

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I discovered Paul Orman, Paul Epps, and I was like,

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"Yeah, that sounds like my kind of gem.

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Like automate your task.

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That's what I want to do for my task."

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And I failed miserably, but then I discovered the community,

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the Microsoft community around it, and I got so much help,

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and I engaged with different people.

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And then, at some point, I built my first flow,

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and then I got better at building flows, and then apps,

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and then I worked as a, yeah, more or less app and flow,

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and I developed for quite some time.

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But I realized it was a struggle for me,

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because coding doesn't get naturally to me,

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as I mentioned, I didn't study IT,

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or didn't have any experience.

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So, after a couple of years working with the Power Platform,

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I decided that I should use my skill that I had from my university,

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like communication, change management, analyzing situations,

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that I should use this together with IT, and the end is,

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that I now consult companies with how to work with Power Platform,

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why in general, work with Power Platform, how to make it secure,

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because somehow no one talks about it,

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like administration security and governance.

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So, I kind of took this niche or this road by accident,

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because nearly no one was there, and it kind of fitted my skills.

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So, it is fun for me now, and I'm still at the point where,

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and say, I can develop my apps and flows,

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and I do that for myself, but on an enterprise scale, for example,

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please let the code us do their work,

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because I'm clearly not as good as them are.

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So, yeah, that's how I ended in my spot,

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in a short story.

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Yeah, awesome, awesome.

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And you're also well-regunized sports star,

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you are a mini golf champion, how would you?

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How do you achieve your career?

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Well, this sounds bigger than it actually is, I guess.

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That was, with a bunch of people from the community,

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I attended the South Coast Summit in the UK,

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and I don't know why, but we thought, we come from Germany,

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we drive through Belgium and the Netherlands,

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and then we can go by car to the UK.

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So, let's make a road trip, this is fun, right?

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It was fun, I would say, first 15, 20 minutes,

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and then you have like a day-long road trip in a car,

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and it was a little bit, it was a lot, a lot of driving,

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so we decided to take a break at some point,

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and there wasn't any golf course.

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And I won this game, and since I won this game

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against many other Microsoft MVPs from different areas,

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I decided to call myself a Raining Mini Golf Champion,

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from that point on, that's all this,

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but that's the stories about, actually.

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Maybe I could delete it now from this,

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but it's still there, and I don't know.

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Yeah, a lot of people see the power platform,

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I say, as collection of tools like PowerX Power Automate,

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Power BI, DataWords, Co-Pilot Studio, and once also in it.

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You see it as an organizational capability.

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What's the difference between those, yeah, both mindsets?

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Yeah.

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All platform consists of many different services,

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so Power Automate is a service, Power Apps is a service,

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Power pages is a service, and so on and so on.

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So what you get there is a classic software as a service thing.

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And that's still true, but the whole platform

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that combines, or basically is a foundation

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for all these services to run on,

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that is the Power Platform that is baked into your tenant,

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into your Azure subscription, into everything with that.

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Then that is not software as a service,

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that is a platform as a service.

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And there's a difference between that,

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what kind of features are managed by Microsoft

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when you have a software as a service product,

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versus what is managed by Microsoft,

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when you have a platform as a service product.

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And that is a difference.

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And therefore, Power Platform is kind of both,

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it's a platform as a service, and if you have enabled it in your tenant

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and you use it, the services is software as a service for your users,

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but not for you as, let's say, administrator,

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as someone who owns the tenant, as someone who is in charge.

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And that makes a fundamental difference in how to act,

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as a, let's say, Power Platform developer,

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or Power Platform administrator,

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or Power Platform, I don't know, owner.

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If you are the owner of the platform,

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or the services in your company,

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then you have to ask different questions and do different things.

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Evolving and running flows is one thing,

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but managing the whole group of makers and citizen developers

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who do that is a different thing.

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So that is something, yeah, sometimes I think,

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Microsoft started to deliver the story,

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to really make this a story,

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that even this is just a low-code platform,

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it still requires work and setup and maintenance.

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That is something, and I really like that Microsoft started

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to spread the story more and more,

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because in the very beginning, it was all a little bit,

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it's easy, everyone can do that.

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It's a little bit, okay, okay, here,

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and then, voila, you have a flow, a business critical flow.

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So that is, yeah, that is, I guess, the main difference between,

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why? Because I say, there's a platform,

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on this platform, there are services like Power,

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or my Power Apps, and whatnot.

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Yeah, and that comes, you're, I say, your clear statement,

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you say, Power Platform, there's not a hobby tool,

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it's an enterprise software.

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I love the story.

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Yeah, I would love to repart the platform to be a hobby tool,

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because I have so many things I would automate for myself,

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but for Power Platform, you need a business license.

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That is the point.

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That means even if you do something as a hobby tool

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with Microsoft, then you always bound to your,

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not to your talent, but to your license,

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is so to say.

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That is something, but yeah, sorry,

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didn't want to interrupt, it's not a hobby tool.

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No, it's a pure,

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pure professional business application platform.

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Yeah, what's the, other more common

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misconceptions you have when they hear low-code,

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citizen development, and I think,

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actually, we have also Star Wars low-code on the platform.

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A vibe coding, or low-code?

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I don't know how, how, how,

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Microsoft actually called it.

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We are still on a low-code platform with the Power Platform.

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Vibe coding is getting more and more into the,

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into the platform.

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There was, I was called, Power Apps Plan,

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Power Apps Plan, or something like that,

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where you basically build your apps and codes,

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and whatever, with prompts.

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So this vibe coding element is getting more and more into the platform.

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Not sure how I think about that,

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but the most common misconception, I guess,

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I guess it changes, or it kind of changed.

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And for very long years, I think it always was

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following the Microsoft message, it's easy, and everyone can do that.

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That is not wrong, but to have it, or to treat it more like an enterprise,

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or business tool, then it's not easy.

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If you want to use it in a professional way,

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if you want to have a regional profit, for example,

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or if you want to solve a problem,

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then you would have to put in some effort.

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And it's, especially, I would say, Powerpages, Power Apps.

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That is something, or at least, not all Power Apps, but Canvas Apps,

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that require some kind of coding.

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That requires some kind of learning,

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and some time and effort to put in.

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And that is, I guess, we had, if you see this, like,

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like, wave way of the development,

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at the beginning, everyone was like,

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"Yeah, there's a super easy, and everyone built a whole lot of apps and flows,

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and they are all stored in default environment."

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And after a while, they broke, they never really got finished.

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It was all tests, and they realized, "Okay, we have to do some series.

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We have to put in some series effort here."

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And then this, the usage of Power Platform went a little bit down, I think.

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And then there was a point where the more IT professionals

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started to do a "Urto Discover Power Platform" and put in some more work.

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And now, what I see is lots of organization use Power Platform.

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And users are using that for their first productivity projects,

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so small kind of flows remind us,

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something like this.

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And on the other hand, we have

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not even business apps, but whole business projects,

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like solutions that contain dozens of flows and apps and tables and everything.

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And that is, and plugins and custom coding.

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And all of that, that is like,

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a lot on the one hand side and just lower effort on the other side.

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So that's kind of interesting.

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There seems to be no in-between, more or less.

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Yeah, that's good.

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But I think for people to understand what's happened,

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can you give us one or two examples where we have seen it's

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yeah, flow at become, start with a good attention, but it becomes critical in the business?

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Yes.

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It's a little bit tricky because when you say a flow or an app or whatever,

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a Power Platform solution becomes business critical,

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it always depends on what you mean with critical.

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Because when you have a flow that helps you get the correct data from a big database,

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like SAP, I write my own code, I have access to the SAP database and so I can delegate my access to

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my flow to really get access and you even get, get, let, show me the data that I need for

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personal work. That is fine, that in a few terms can be a non-business critical.

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If now this flow gets shared with more and more people and they edit it and they customize

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a little bit and in the end you have 40 people that have automated access to SAP and they would

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not only receive data, but also write data, then you would, that would become a problem because

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you don't know what kind of data is getting in and you don't have like a layoff proof or something

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like that is something that you want to avoid. That could be a business critical, a flow that

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started with good attention, but then got business critical. I have another example yet a completely

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different example. I had a company and they used in the pre-Christmas season, they have like

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these Christmas parties and celebrations and they do a secret center and stuff like that. So

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very harmless, right? They would do this every year and at some point they said okay let's do this

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with power element because to figure out who is gifting to whom, like the secret center, a center.

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We can do this with a little bit IT with a little bit automation that works, right? So they build

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a secret center app. Absolutely not business critical. The point is now every employee of the company

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was invited to this app, which is also fine, but then you have one, I have one small little app

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that doesn't do something critical, but there are 500 people in there. And over the time you got a

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lactation in your stuff, like people are leaving the organization, new people are coming and so this

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app was kind of the list of members was outdated. And that means that you had at least 15 to 20 people

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or accounts in there that were not active anymore. And that is like a huge security gap because

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these accounts could be utilized, they were still in the Entra ID, whatsoever. And with those accounts,

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you could use some serious harm. So that is another example of an application or an idea that is

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very harmless and very fun and lighthearted, but if you don't maintain it and you have so many people

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involved, there's so much potential for mischief, let's say. So it all depends on the context, what is

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critical or what is not, what is secure, what is insecure, it's never the app, almost never the app,

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it's almost always the behavior of the people. And that is something important to understand,

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especially if you think about governance and security, all the tools that we have in the admin center,

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you have data loss prevention policies in that, that are tools to make your governance work,

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but in the end, you have to train your people because they are first and last baseline of security,

314
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basically. Yeah, tools help, absolutely. If we wouldn't have a tool like the app or something,

315
00:19:00,580 --> 00:19:05,940
that would be tricky. Yeah, I think, yeah, for governance, you're the

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specialist, the governance specialist around the world. So many makers here, the word governance,

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and yeah, immediately, they think of bureaucracy, tickets, approvals and restrictions.

318
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Yes, absolutely. I do really find governance for them.

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Actually, I think I don't really find governance, I explain governance. I think that is a thing,

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because in governance and security as well, you always have something like

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you have to decide, do you want it to be super secure and super governed, then it's really not

322
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handy to work. Then it takes effort, it takes time. You have to write tickets and you have to

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make backup copies and all that. That takes time and it's not this easy breezy. I just click around

324
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and move ahead of the flow. That is something different. If you want this to be super easy and

325
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with no restrictions at all and everyone can use it any time and it's super fast, then it's probably

326
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not that secure. So you have that decision to make anyhow. But the idea that people think of

327
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governance and now it's going to be slow and it's super awkward and I can't use all the connectors

328
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that I want so that they don't want really governance or security. That's understandable and

329
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they absolutely see that. I have a very interesting example that I've seen with a German company,

330
00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:44,260
surprised it was a German one. They said, "Okay, we want this secure." They came up with a process

331
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who can develop apps and flows, who would prove and test those apps and flows and then

332
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they would be raised at some point. The whole process was kind of solid. It was secure,

333
00:21:00,980 --> 00:21:07,780
it was good, understandable. Everyone knew how to work, how to handle it, how this process works,

334
00:21:07,780 --> 00:21:13,700
but this process took in the best case if I have, from my first idea, what kind of app offloader

335
00:21:13,700 --> 00:21:20,100
do I want to build? From I requested the access to the environment and to the right connectors.

336
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:26,580
If everything went through smoothly, this process went for six months. So best case, I have an idea for

337
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an app and six months later it's done, regardless if I work six months on the app or just finish it in one

338
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day. So that was a little bit of security and governance overkill and people were really angry

339
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and they were like, "We don't take this anymore. That doesn't make any sense." And that was just the

340
00:21:42,580 --> 00:21:48,900
best case. So if you work on your app and two weeks, three weeks into work, you realize, "Oh, dang,

341
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I need another connector." The whole process started from the beginning. So it could be that your

342
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application development lifecycle would take a year for an app that you would build in a week.

343
00:21:59,460 --> 00:22:06,500
That was overkill. Now, the point is, so you can overdo it for sure, but the

344
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governance insecurity doesn't automatically mean flows, luggage and not usable anymore. And quite often

345
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in my workshops, I use an example that I think fits really well. And this is the idea if we think about

346
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traffic rules that we have in our everyday life. We do have traffic rules right now. We have

347
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lights and signs in Germany. We have so many sites on the road. And we do have a driver's license test.

348
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That is something as well. So if I want to use a vehicle, I have to take a driver's license. I have

349
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to learn all the rules and I have to identify all the signs. I have to know what they mean.

350
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And then I can participate in traffic. And I even sometimes put my kits in my car. So I make them

351
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participate in traffic because I feel safe enough in traffic to navigate around and everything is fine.

352
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Now, if you ever imagine we wouldn't have any signs or any rules in traffic, like no traffic lights,

353
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no clear rules of who drives first and you wouldn't have to take a test. Anyone who has access could

354
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just enter a car and just go for it. Then what happened, it would feel very insecure for us to

355
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participate in traffic because you would have to feel that every at every corner, someone would

356
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smash into you or just ignore the lights if you would have any in the first place. So what would

357
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happen then if you would participate in traffic in such a world without without any rules inside?

358
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What would you say? I think chaos. Teos? Yes. Would you participate in traffic?

359
00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:58,260
No. No. Like every day. You would be cautious. From not a really good car driver. So I'm my woman

360
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drives. So I think, I think, let me know, Cologne, I drive there for sometimes. Yeah, for me,

361
00:24:09,220 --> 00:24:17,140
it's double hard. I think. Yeah. Okay. You know, very much. And that is with traffic rules. So most people,

362
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answer me this question like this. They would say, yes, I would participate in traffic. I would

363
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drive in my car, but not all the time. Only if it's really necessary. Like I need something

364
00:24:28,580 --> 00:24:34,100
re-urgently or something like that. Would I take my kids? I don't think so. And especially I would

365
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drive very slow because I always have to take into calculation that someone would smash into me or

366
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would drive way too fast or something. So the whole process would be slowed down extremely.

367
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And it would be a lot of effort to do that. It would be insecure. You're not allowed what to do

368
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when and stuff like that. And it's it's the same with governance rules in power platform.

369
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If everyone is allowed to do anything all the time and you don't have any regulations,

370
00:25:01,780 --> 00:25:07,300
you don't have any rules or people don't know the rules, then what happens at least for

371
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:12,260
the administrators in every environment all of the time they are always apps and flows popping

372
00:25:12,260 --> 00:25:22,740
up, being deleted. Things would break all the time. The IT administrator would have to act like a

373
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firefighter. They wait for an emergency to happen, then they rush to it and try to fix things.

374
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That is frustrating for everyone. For users now, if they don't know what's allowed and what not,

375
00:25:32,260 --> 00:25:38,660
where am I allowed to build? What can I use and what not? They get cautious because sometimes you get

376
00:25:38,660 --> 00:25:47,940
emails from IT, you broke a rule or you got a DLP violation error or something like that. I didn't

377
00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:52,340
intend to do that, but I didn't know any better. So the whole process is sometimes slow.

378
00:25:52,340 --> 00:25:57,460
If you have a clear set of rules and regulations and it's that is the second

379
00:25:57,460 --> 00:26:02,500
amount in part is communicated to everyone that is using the power platform and they understand it.

380
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:07,300
Like here is your environment where you can build. Just go wild, do whatever you want. We've

381
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:14,980
secured it. You can try whatever you want to try. Then the makers and the citizens develop us. They

382
00:26:14,980 --> 00:26:21,140
have the confidence to build free, to experiment, to break things even because that is, I think,

383
00:26:21,140 --> 00:26:26,580
a necessary part in learning and developing. It's like if you do something and breaks, usually,

384
00:26:26,580 --> 00:26:32,660
at some point you learn a lesson and you say, "Why does it break? Why is it me? Is it the restriction?

385
00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:41,220
Something like this." I often see from, as a result, from my work in companies where I work and I

386
00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:47,940
and we worked on a governance approach, that the development cycle actually gets faster and

387
00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:58,420
accelerates. The incidents, the incident rate gets lower and usually that is a win-win for both sides.

388
00:27:00,420 --> 00:27:04,740
That is often the problem when people and makers hear the word governance and security, they think,

389
00:27:04,740 --> 00:27:10,980
"No, no, I'm not allowed to do stuff anymore." The point is often most administrators and

390
00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:16,740
platform owners, I know, they would be happy if they knew what people want to do and why.

391
00:27:16,740 --> 00:27:21,620
So if someone says, "I have a great idea for the Instagram connector and our business data."

392
00:27:21,620 --> 00:27:27,940
The answer to that would say, "No, that doesn't sound too good." But if they put their ideas into

393
00:27:27,940 --> 00:27:34,420
a plan, why would you want to do that? What would you want to do? Even maybe you would give them a

394
00:27:34,420 --> 00:27:39,700
demo example where they can try out a bit of words, let's see how the result is, then maybe it's a valuable idea.

395
00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:46,100
I don't know that yet, but from the administrator or owner perspective, I can't really evaluate the idea

396
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:56,020
yet enough if I just hear this kind of scenario. So what really the important point of my work is

397
00:27:56,020 --> 00:28:02,820
to explain what is governance and what is it for because in the end, governance is a part of the

398
00:28:02,820 --> 00:28:09,220
solution that everyone that works in companies still has a job tomorrow because really big upsies,

399
00:28:09,220 --> 00:28:15,860
they cost jobs and money and that is something that we don't want, especially not with a cool and fun

400
00:28:15,860 --> 00:28:22,180
tool like Power Platform. Yeah, I think just this last thought maybe.

401
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:31,860
What Power Platform does is it democratizes the accessibility to software solutions.

402
00:28:31,860 --> 00:28:38,100
So even without extensive computer or programming knowledge, you can build your own solutions

403
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:42,340
because you are the expert of your own for your own work. You know what really sucks at work and

404
00:28:42,340 --> 00:28:47,300
what could be done better and now you have the possibility to solve it yourself and that is

405
00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:54,340
really, really important and brings lots of value and I don't want to restrict that too much.

406
00:28:54,340 --> 00:29:02,740
That would be a shame basically. So explaining what governance is is usually it lowers the

407
00:29:02,740 --> 00:29:15,300
fear I would say. Yeah, fear. Yeah, roots fear. I think one of some of your articles,

408
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:20,180
you are a little bit reframing the governance to clarity, confidence and boundaries.

409
00:29:22,580 --> 00:29:27,860
That's a little bit unpagnate. First let's a little bit talk about clarity.

410
00:29:27,860 --> 00:29:33,700
What does clarity looks like in a major Power Platform organization? Is it the key ownership,

411
00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:39,540
key environment, key data classification, connect, rules, escalation path, what is clarity?

412
00:29:39,540 --> 00:29:45,940
Yeah, so first of all, I think and that is not only for Power Platform, but for every aspect in

413
00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:54,020
life, clarity brings freedom. If I know if I have clarity in the if I know what I can do,

414
00:29:54,020 --> 00:30:00,740
what is expected of me, what is supposed to happen, I know rules. Then I have the freedom to

415
00:30:00,740 --> 00:30:09,860
choose how I act. That is an if I don't have clarity and if some things are uncertain and the

416
00:30:09,860 --> 00:30:15,220
outcome and the expected outcome is uncertain, then I maybe hesitate to take action. If I know what

417
00:30:15,220 --> 00:30:21,620
will happen, if everything is clear to me, then I can choose my actions and do so. And clarity

418
00:30:21,620 --> 00:30:25,860
in Power Platform is exactly that. On the one hand side for the maker, on the one other hand side

419
00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:31,380
for the administrators, let's say, it's up with the maker side. That means if a maker knows,

420
00:30:31,380 --> 00:30:40,580
default environment is forbidden. No, no, don't build here. If the maker knows, I can have my personal

421
00:30:40,580 --> 00:30:46,260
developer environment and I can build there within all those restrictions, restrictions that we have.

422
00:30:46,260 --> 00:30:51,300
For example, we won't use the Twitter or X connector or the Instagram connector.

423
00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:56,980
Fine, then I have the freedom of building my flows and apps, but without those connectors.

424
00:30:56,980 --> 00:31:05,220
I can do that. If I still want to use those connectors, for example, and I can ask for it, maybe like

425
00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:12,340
a demo, extra secure demo environment or something, then clarity would mean that I know whom to ask.

426
00:31:12,340 --> 00:31:18,180
Where do I go to if I have a question? Where do I go to if something breaks? That is like a first

427
00:31:18,180 --> 00:31:24,020
level support process that I have. And if I have such a process, it's really necessary that my

428
00:31:24,020 --> 00:31:29,540
makers and all users, basically, all of them, they know, they know how to do it. How does it work?

429
00:31:29,540 --> 00:31:34,020
Where do I go to? Where do I have to click? What language should I use? Something like that.

430
00:31:34,820 --> 00:31:40,180
And this clarity is important for users of the kind, but for powerful platforms, especially I think.

431
00:31:40,180 --> 00:31:46,580
On the other hand, clarity for administrators looks different. As an administrator, I want to know

432
00:31:46,580 --> 00:31:52,340
what's going on in my tenant because I'm responsible for security. And I can't be responsible if,

433
00:31:52,340 --> 00:31:58,180
let's say, 100-maker would don't have any clarity and they just click around aimlessly.

434
00:31:58,820 --> 00:32:05,780
Then I can't provide the security that is my job. So I need the clarity to see what's going on. I might

435
00:32:05,780 --> 00:32:11,460
and my tenant. What environments are there? Who has access to this environments? Are there any

436
00:32:11,460 --> 00:32:21,540
other administrators or people who have extended rights? Is there a citizen developer, an account

437
00:32:21,540 --> 00:32:27,780
that has developed 50 new custom connectors? And I would like to know about this. What do they connect

438
00:32:27,780 --> 00:32:32,740
to all those connectors do? I don't want to restrict the development of connectors, but I just want to know

439
00:32:32,740 --> 00:32:40,180
if they are working within the compliance rules of our organization. I just need to know that.

440
00:32:40,180 --> 00:32:46,900
And before I can evaluate some of this, I need to know what's there and what's in it. So clarity,

441
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:53,300
I need a good inventory. So for administrators, the term clarity is more technical term. I need a good

442
00:32:53,300 --> 00:33:00,900
fucking inventory. Otherwise, I have no idea what's going on. I can't go on it. So clarity,

443
00:33:00,900 --> 00:33:09,540
it's absolutely a must have. Okay, the clarity brings the freedom and then we have confidence.

444
00:33:09,540 --> 00:33:17,460
What brings confidence? Well, as I said, clarity brings confidence. That is kind of the point.

445
00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:21,700
It follows each other. If I know what I'm allowed to do and what I'm not allowed to do,

446
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:25,540
then I have the confidence to build within those restrictions that I have.

447
00:33:25,540 --> 00:33:32,180
If I don't know, if I'm doing something forbidden right now, then I don't act confident.

448
00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:38,340
Then I always act like I'm trying to stay under the radar. I'm trying to be hidden to not get caught

449
00:33:38,340 --> 00:33:43,140
or something. That is not confident. That is sneaking around. And that is what we, for decades,

450
00:33:43,140 --> 00:33:50,100
now called shadow IT. Well, shadow IT is a term not necessarily fitting in this discussion or in

451
00:33:50,100 --> 00:33:56,020
the, in this confidence discussion, but shadow IT is an important term. And in power platform

452
00:33:56,020 --> 00:34:01,540
has the opportunity to build this inventory, to get this clarity for all participants.

453
00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:08,980
And that means that confidence coding is possible for everyone, for administrators and for users,

454
00:34:08,980 --> 00:34:13,860
for citizens, developers, for all the people that we have. And this confidence,

455
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:21,940
I think clarity brings confidence and confidence on the other brings clarity.

456
00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:26,580
Because if I build confidence in there and I can transport my ideas and I can communicate my ideas

457
00:34:26,580 --> 00:34:32,180
and show the output, like, proud and confident, then I have a foundation to talk about what I've

458
00:34:32,180 --> 00:34:37,780
done. Is it a good solution? Is it valuable? Is it nice to have? But if I don't have this,

459
00:34:37,780 --> 00:34:44,820
then I can't talk about this. And then we drift into this shadow IT world where I try to

460
00:34:44,820 --> 00:34:47,860
be not get caught by administrators because I build something that is not really allowed.

461
00:34:47,860 --> 00:34:59,540
Yeah. And then we have the last key, yeah, the last, the last word boundaries. What, what, what's

462
00:34:59,540 --> 00:35:05,060
that there all the point? Why I put this word in there is boundaries is something else

463
00:35:05,060 --> 00:35:12,820
from restrictions. If something is forbidden, I know it is, I'm just not allowed to do that. A

464
00:35:12,820 --> 00:35:23,940
boundary, at least in my, in my hat, in my understanding is something that is not necessary for

465
00:35:23,940 --> 00:35:30,420
bitten, but we don't do that because of a specific reason. So we have reasoning for it. And that is

466
00:35:30,420 --> 00:35:36,820
kind of often another misconception that we have in IT between IT and business often. IT says no,

467
00:35:37,460 --> 00:35:45,380
but not why. And the business is, well, that sucks. A boundary for me is usually communicated within

468
00:35:45,380 --> 00:35:57,140
a reasonable, but we do have a reason for that. And when I say, I don't want to allow the, the

469
00:35:57,140 --> 00:36:04,180
Instagram connector in our tenant, then I should be better in the position to say why because it's

470
00:36:04,180 --> 00:36:09,220
linked to matter and matter collects data like crazy. And we don't want our business data

471
00:36:09,220 --> 00:36:15,620
like to get to matter because we don't know what they do actually with it. And that is not our

472
00:36:15,620 --> 00:36:21,860
goal. So that is a little bit, maybe it's a little bit sneaky of me to, to swap the turn,

473
00:36:21,860 --> 00:36:28,100
being forbidden, being restricted, but being, there's a boundary, but you can always discuss

474
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:33,140
about a boundary. And if you ever fix through, there's not much room for discussion. So maybe it's

475
00:36:33,140 --> 00:36:39,140
a little bit, but it's, as you said in the beginning, it's reframing. It's reframing what governance means

476
00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:46,420
and why we do that, why we do have boundaries and what reason behind it. Once again,

477
00:36:46,420 --> 00:36:55,380
and these boundaries and those security rules and governance rules that we have, they have to be

478
00:36:55,380 --> 00:37:02,420
flexible in a way because that means a rule that was yesterday absolutely fine, doesn't mean it's

479
00:37:02,420 --> 00:37:10,980
absolutely fine tomorrow. Sometimes the compliance rules that we have to follow, they change as well.

480
00:37:10,980 --> 00:37:21,140
Example would be the EU AI Act that just came to terms. This now is a major change in how we act

481
00:37:21,140 --> 00:37:27,140
in the European Union. And now we have to adapt our rules and compliance for that. Another example

482
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:34,900
would be seat belts. Seat belts were not mandatory in class for quite sometimes in the 60s and so

483
00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:42,660
now they are. So we have to adapt our compliance and our rules. So I think boundaries are a little

484
00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:48,420
bit more flexible and they can be adapted. So they, that's, that's the important point. So reframing

485
00:37:48,420 --> 00:37:55,300
governance and explaining why we do what we do and also be in the position to take some critical

486
00:37:55,300 --> 00:38:00,340
questions. If all of you say that doesn't make sense and I explain you why, then I should be

487
00:38:00,340 --> 00:38:04,500
confident enough and I can be confident if I have the clarity, if I know what's going on.

488
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:10,980
To take this discussion, why do we do that? Or why don't we allow that? And that is something

489
00:38:10,980 --> 00:38:16,500
that is necessary, I think, in the whole security, IT security and the governance area.

490
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:23,540
Partly, from kind of shows it because so many people have access all of sudden and yeah, makes it

491
00:38:23,540 --> 00:38:32,260
kind of a more open issue. Yeah, I work for, I don't know, three years for one of the biggest

492
00:38:32,260 --> 00:38:39,380
automotive companies. I don't know the law to say their name, but my time in Voss book.

493
00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:43,700
I was, all right, got it.

494
00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:51,700
Was therefore a Microsoft fabric project and that's what was really interesting because they,

495
00:38:51,700 --> 00:38:58,500
they used the power platform every, really every day. I have flows that give the data back,

496
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:02,820
transform it. There was bots that were working with it. They have custom connections to it.

497
00:39:02,820 --> 00:39:13,540
SharePoint was connected and also a variety of, of data was a database is also connected to this.

498
00:39:13,540 --> 00:39:21,380
And then I think I know the answer, but from your perspective, why is inventory the foundation

499
00:39:21,940 --> 00:39:29,220
of governance? As I said earlier, if you don't know what you have, you don't know what to have

500
00:39:29,220 --> 00:39:37,940
to do to government to make it secure. It's as easy as that. And for that, I have plenty of

501
00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:43,380
examples because usually it's when I work with companies and organizations, ask them, do you have

502
00:39:43,380 --> 00:39:48,980
a governance and say, yes, we do. Second question is, and have you written it down? Like recommended,

503
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:58,420
no, almost no, something like that. So when we start the governance project,

504
00:39:58,420 --> 00:40:02,980
usually we start with inventory, okay, what do we have? We open a hood and let's see what really

505
00:40:02,980 --> 00:40:09,620
out there. And quite often we find something like, I don't know, 600 apps in default environment.

506
00:40:09,620 --> 00:40:17,940
And that is not best practice. That is in fact, security risk. And quite often we find just a few,

507
00:40:17,940 --> 00:40:23,380
a couple of accounts like those very power users who are very confident, they're funnily, and they

508
00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:28,500
develop a few custom connectors. And then you realize, okay, they could do a lot of

509
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:33,380
stupe those custom connectors. I just want to see what's happening to my data. Where is it right now?

510
00:40:33,380 --> 00:40:39,540
It's a little bit like switching on the light in a dark room. You have to see what there is in

511
00:40:39,540 --> 00:40:48,980
order to decide how to proceed. And sometimes you have funny moments for that. A good friend of mine

512
00:40:48,980 --> 00:40:54,580
once also works in governance. He had a project in the customer and they found a custom connector to,

513
00:40:54,580 --> 00:41:02,180
let's say, to an internet site, to let's say an adult film site. I don't want to say the name,

514
00:41:02,180 --> 00:41:07,300
but I think everyone knows what's meant by that. And they got a custom connector. You just

515
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:13,780
would receive data. This would receive playlists and stuff. And I don't know what the background was,

516
00:41:13,780 --> 00:41:18,580
if they have like any business with that, or if they just weren't very curious, can we do this?

517
00:41:18,580 --> 00:41:23,620
Because of course, there is an API and you can connect with that. And that was really interesting.

518
00:41:23,620 --> 00:41:34,820
And if you want to make a rule in your company, don't connect our tenant to adult film sites.

519
00:41:34,820 --> 00:41:41,700
Then you have to know that people do that in the first place. And yeah, that why inventory is

520
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:45,460
the absolutely first and important thing for governance.

521
00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:54,580
Yeah, that's a really funny thing to go. There was one guy who gets a little bit famous.

522
00:41:54,580 --> 00:42:08,740
And yeah, he, oh, what's the English word? He has also a connector. I have never used this word in

523
00:42:08,740 --> 00:42:20,100
English. I have to look at betting stuff. And they sell it. What they have used in these movies.

524
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:29,860
So they have a marketing, funny marketing idea. Yeah, I think it's really interesting for what you can

525
00:42:29,860 --> 00:42:36,020
use these custom connectors. But the other thing with the darkroom, you say, and bring the lighter,

526
00:42:36,020 --> 00:42:46,580
okay, not all dark rooms like it in Kalon, but I say it's the visibility topic. And how can we start

527
00:42:46,580 --> 00:42:53,860
bringing visibility to the inventory? What's your tips? Yeah, that's a good question.

528
00:42:53,860 --> 00:42:58,900
For the last couple of years, I always say use the center of excellence data kit.

529
00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:06,900
Well, surprise. So now it's replicated now, which means we can use it still, but there won't be any

530
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:14,820
updates. And yeah, now we have to think about how we do that. Now, the good thing is that we have a

531
00:43:14,820 --> 00:43:22,260
new inventory in the power platform admin center natively. So it's there and it's not bad. I usually

532
00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:28,020
don't say very good things about the PPEC power platform admin center. But this I really like,

533
00:43:28,020 --> 00:43:32,100
it's not bad. It's by the pure inventory. It shows you what is there.

534
00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:38,660
Compared to the center of excellence data kit, I use that inventory to combine it with my rules.

535
00:43:38,660 --> 00:43:44,500
So I have those tables with all my flows, environments, apps. And usually I build my flows on top of

536
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:51,220
those tables to make like rules and alerts and stuff like that. It's not possible within the admin

537
00:43:51,220 --> 00:43:58,260
center now. But this is this inventory in the admin center. It's kind of fast because it doesn't

538
00:43:58,260 --> 00:44:04,980
use a flow together with data from all the tenant, but it it queries the API directly. And that means

539
00:44:08,340 --> 00:44:14,820
whereas with the center of excellence data kit, all the synch flows to run through you have the

540
00:44:14,820 --> 00:44:20,260
all time time we know from like 24 hours or something like that to get new set of data.

541
00:44:20,260 --> 00:44:26,260
If something changed, talk a while until you realize, hey, there's something new. Now this goes

542
00:44:26,260 --> 00:44:32,340
within 10, 15 minutes. The query against the API is very fast. It's very cool. It's not complete yet.

543
00:44:32,340 --> 00:44:36,900
A few things are missing like we don't have custom connectors in that and we don't have names of

544
00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:42,020
owners or planters I think for all this stuff. So it's still under development, but it's it's a very

545
00:44:42,020 --> 00:44:47,220
good start. And especially for smaller and medium sized companies, this is absolutely sufficient.

546
00:44:47,220 --> 00:44:53,860
So no need to build something more complex than that or to buy a governance product from

547
00:44:53,860 --> 00:45:02,500
from one of the vendors we have out there. So this is cool. If we don't want that or we want

548
00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:10,740
something that is a little bit more customized than the then the ppex thing, it's not that hard to

549
00:45:10,740 --> 00:45:16,660
build your own inventory with the power platform API. We have like three or four APIs that we need

550
00:45:16,660 --> 00:45:25,460
to build up something like a center of excellence clone or something like that. And with all the AI

551
00:45:25,460 --> 00:45:34,100
we have like a chat with the AI and whatever we have, it's kind of of doable to build your inventory

552
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:40,980
even if you are not that deep into coding. So that kind of works good. And for all medium sized

553
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:47,220
and bigger companies, that's what I do and I suggest all the time basically is build your own

554
00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:53,940
inventory based on your customized needs because if you don't have premium licenses and you have

555
00:45:53,940 --> 00:45:58,420
no one in your company that can build model-driven apps or custom connectors, then you don't need to

556
00:45:58,420 --> 00:46:05,940
monitor for a model-driven apps or custom connectors. Easy as that. So kind of depends on your

557
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:14,980
on your needs. But two things, the ppex API inventory is very good now, not completely yet.

558
00:46:14,980 --> 00:46:21,780
And the other hand is build it yourself. And that is something that is necessary now because

559
00:46:21,780 --> 00:46:32,340
center of excellence data kit is well not that, but not a life too. And especially with all the

560
00:46:32,340 --> 00:46:40,740
agents that we have now, Copilot Studio agents, there is another toolkit, the Copilot Studio Kit.

561
00:46:40,740 --> 00:46:45,860
No, no, if you know about it, but that is quite nice for an inventory as well,

562
00:46:46,820 --> 00:46:56,180
especially an only for Copilot Studio. But then once again, for a good inventory, how to do that,

563
00:46:56,180 --> 00:47:01,140
how to start is use the kit set out there, maybe even use the use of center of excellence data kit,

564
00:47:01,140 --> 00:47:08,340
but have a backup plan because in the next 12 or 18 months, you won't use it anymore and build up

565
00:47:08,340 --> 00:47:14,340
your own thing, what you need. So once again, start with an, let's say, a project like inventory,

566
00:47:14,340 --> 00:47:19,620
switch on the lights in your environments and see what you have, see what you have to take care of,

567
00:47:19,620 --> 00:47:24,900
and then build up an inventory and governance, according to those needs that you have.

568
00:47:24,900 --> 00:47:31,300
Yeah, well, we have our inventory. I think the next step we have to talk about is life cycle

569
00:47:31,300 --> 00:47:34,740
management. Can you tell us a little bit how, how do you handle this?

570
00:47:34,740 --> 00:47:42,580
Yes, I can do that. Before that, I would say the first thing that I do after the inventory is more

571
00:47:42,580 --> 00:47:51,060
or less to get like a map. I split the tenant into different environments and see what do we need.

572
00:47:51,060 --> 00:47:54,740
I start, we do have the default environment and we don't get rid of that.

573
00:47:54,740 --> 00:48:01,780
Usually I restrict that very, very strongly, but then I have an environment for the IT department,

574
00:48:01,780 --> 00:48:10,900
administrators. So everything that is just for the IT department, plug-ins, professional code of

575
00:48:10,900 --> 00:48:16,260
that is thought in the IT department and I have a citizen developer or maker shared environment where

576
00:48:16,260 --> 00:48:21,220
they can all use their, put in their, their flows and apps and share what they have. Everyone

577
00:48:21,220 --> 00:48:25,700
get their personal developer environment where they can code all that for special and business

578
00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:32,180
critical projects. We have like environment with environments with deaf tests and production.

579
00:48:32,180 --> 00:48:40,820
And that is when it comes to life cycle management. First of all, I, yeah, I structure everything

580
00:48:40,820 --> 00:48:45,460
that I have into different parts because I, if I have to clean up and take care of what I,

581
00:48:45,460 --> 00:48:53,380
I don't want to clean up everything but just the parts that really need ALM. And ALM is an interesting

582
00:48:53,380 --> 00:49:00,900
topic for me right now because right now I'm in front of a new challenge for me personally and in my business life.

583
00:49:03,700 --> 00:49:13,540
I've usually used the, not get up the pipelines, part of the pipelines because they are quite good now

584
00:49:13,540 --> 00:49:20,980
and I do like the features that come with it and it's super cool for small and medium-sized companies

585
00:49:20,980 --> 00:49:27,940
to use those if you have premium licenses that is a condition to use them. To have like

586
00:49:28,820 --> 00:49:35,780
with chain of environments, deaf test, project, we develop, we test it and then you take it into production.

587
00:49:35,780 --> 00:49:41,060
And this, they work nice. They do have this GitHub integration now so you can have a single

588
00:49:41,060 --> 00:49:46,420
source of truth in the cloud and the internet so you don't rely on your own project and service

589
00:49:46,420 --> 00:49:53,700
and stuff. That is really cool. But if you start developing solutions that are more complex

590
00:49:53,700 --> 00:50:01,140
and bigger and you have custom plugins for example if you have multiple solutions that have to merge

591
00:50:01,140 --> 00:50:06,740
into one in the end. If you have multiple developers who work on different parts of an application or

592
00:50:06,740 --> 00:50:15,300
a solution and that you have to merge those results then it can get nasty. And for that,

593
00:50:15,300 --> 00:50:22,340
for usually what is used often is DevOps and I've never worked with DevOps in my life. Now I have a

594
00:50:22,340 --> 00:50:27,620
whole team they're working with DevOps and they ask me all kind of questions how to make it secure,

595
00:50:27,620 --> 00:50:33,380
how to make it more better and stuff like that. And so I have to speed up my learning right now,

596
00:50:33,380 --> 00:50:41,780
especially with DevOps, GitHub and ALM in general. And what I'm, what right now is on my table is

597
00:50:41,780 --> 00:50:49,620
how to make a database ALM experience that is kind of similar to GitHub. So that means that if I work

598
00:50:49,620 --> 00:50:56,500
at a, on one solution and one part or let's say one page or one side of an app and another

599
00:50:56,500 --> 00:51:01,300
developer is working on another side, now we are both finished with our work and we put it back

600
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:09,300
into the main solution. How do we make sure that there are no errors coming up? Some one or

601
00:51:09,300 --> 00:51:14,820
something has to check if everything will work in the future in production and that is something that

602
00:51:15,780 --> 00:51:20,900
I have a good idea for that. It's a little bit tricky right now, but basically it's with the,

603
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:27,460
with the connection to GitHub that is something, well, it's kind of, I realize I'm getting,

604
00:51:27,460 --> 00:51:32,900
I'm getting too deep right now. I'm getting too deep a little bit. It's very complex and not

605
00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:38,580
complex and not yet, you know, yet finished. But ALM, all platform pipelines are very good.

606
00:51:40,260 --> 00:51:49,940
Sometimes I've just smaller teams and it's not that time critical, you could even do the

607
00:51:49,940 --> 00:51:58,260
our platform SDK works really well if you want to work with VS Code. So there are many different

608
00:51:58,260 --> 00:52:05,460
options and opportunities how to work with ALM and that is a funny thing or an interesting thing

609
00:52:05,460 --> 00:52:09,860
actually because at the beginning we were talking about our platform as a local platform and even

610
00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:18,180
people without IT background could work with it. Now ALM and talking about DevOps, pipelines,

611
00:52:18,180 --> 00:52:24,500
GitHub, all of a sudden is on the other side of the end right? This is because citizen developer,

612
00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:32,500
I know they pretty much are a little bit overwhelmed when it comes to to GitHub and tokens and how

613
00:52:32,500 --> 00:52:38,980
this all works and how a pipeline works. And that is, and that shows how our professional,

614
00:52:38,980 --> 00:52:46,260
the platform is by now. But ALM is something that is very important for the business critical

615
00:52:46,260 --> 00:52:50,820
solutions for the important solutions but not for the everyday life solutions. Like the personal

616
00:52:50,820 --> 00:52:55,860
project, the things that you do, like the reminder flow that reminds me when I don't know,

617
00:52:55,860 --> 00:52:59,540
my boss sent me an email or something like that. That doesn't need ALM.

618
00:53:04,660 --> 00:53:10,820
I think we have the most of the big works now for, I think, yeah, all the buzzwords.

619
00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:15,140
Yeah, one is missing, one is missing, data loss prevention, I think.

620
00:53:15,140 --> 00:53:24,660
Yeah, we did this also. Yeah, I think a lot of companies handle data loss prevention, like

621
00:53:24,660 --> 00:53:34,180
one click on solution. So can you tell a little bit? So we have the big,

622
00:53:34,180 --> 00:53:40,340
the big ones about, you see data loss prevention? I don't know how many big words we have,

623
00:53:40,340 --> 00:53:45,780
but big five or something. I don't know. But yes, data loss prevention. Oh, that is the topic.

624
00:53:45,780 --> 00:53:53,940
And you're right. I think when you said many companies treat them as like

625
00:53:53,940 --> 00:54:01,540
one click solution, click, I switched it on. Now I'm fine. Many people or many companies do that,

626
00:54:01,540 --> 00:54:06,260
which is in case of powerful, I've owned kind of not enough. I don't want to say it's wrong,

627
00:54:06,260 --> 00:54:12,660
but it's not enough. But the name is misleading also. So data loss prevention, that sounds like a

628
00:54:12,660 --> 00:54:19,380
prevention or a policy that, yeah, it kind of prevents data loss. It's not wrong, but it's not what

629
00:54:19,380 --> 00:54:24,900
people expect because the word data loss prevention or DLP, the approvision is used in different

630
00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:31,140
contexts, the contexts for different things. We have Azure DLP's and N365 DLP's and Teams DLP's,

631
00:54:31,460 --> 00:54:35,940
and they all work in kind of the same way, but in the power platform, they work differently. Yeah.

632
00:54:35,940 --> 00:54:46,020
So data loss prevention policies are policies that define which connectors can be used in one solution.

633
00:54:46,020 --> 00:54:50,260
So that means can I build an app with a SharePoint connector and an Instagram connector?

634
00:54:50,260 --> 00:54:59,780
Usually yes, if I have my DLP set up to explicitly forbid that, then no. So it's more or less like

635
00:55:00,740 --> 00:55:04,900
like a regulation which connectors can be used together and which can be not.

636
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:12,180
Additionally, which connectors are blocked overall. And those DLP's are for every environment. So I

637
00:55:12,180 --> 00:55:16,740
can build one for every environment. So I can, I have a little bit of granular, lary-tip

638
00:55:16,740 --> 00:55:21,060
to define which environment can be used for which connectors.

639
00:55:21,060 --> 00:55:29,140
This is nice. There are so many issues with it. I don't want to open that topic now.

640
00:55:29,140 --> 00:55:37,300
But I want to say when you use premium licenses and manage environments, you have the advanced

641
00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:44,820
connector policies. And these are really cool because they offer you a lot more freedom and

642
00:55:44,820 --> 00:55:51,860
granularity to really define what is allowed and what not. Once again, I don't want to get

643
00:55:51,860 --> 00:55:58,260
in too deep, but DLP's are one of the main pillars of governance and security absolutely.

644
00:55:58,260 --> 00:56:04,500
I think, now let's see. We have tenant security. There's tenant settings. Then you have the environments.

645
00:56:04,500 --> 00:56:12,180
You have DLP's, then roles and responsibilities. And I think that are the big four.

646
00:56:12,180 --> 00:56:19,860
So the basics. That is not everything governance and security is about. But those are the big four

647
00:56:19,860 --> 00:56:27,380
pillars that you should have at least a vague idea of what they are, what this does and how to use it.

648
00:56:28,340 --> 00:56:34,980
There are the tools that you need to have in your toolbox or in your pocket to make it a little

649
00:56:34,980 --> 00:56:43,860
bit more. And maybe the first one is the hidden one. That is the, let's say the knowledge that

650
00:56:43,860 --> 00:56:50,420
the default is always bad. And I don't mean default environment, but I mean default settings.

651
00:56:50,420 --> 00:56:56,260
That is something where I'm sometimes a little bit, I argue with Microsoft sometimes,

652
00:56:56,980 --> 00:57:01,700
because they deliver their products and their platforms. And especially with a local platform,

653
00:57:01,700 --> 00:57:07,780
like power platform, they want every user or almost every user to have access to use their product.

654
00:57:07,780 --> 00:57:12,580
Right. If you, if you develop a product and you give it to users, you want them to use it.

655
00:57:12,580 --> 00:57:20,180
The problem is if everyone has access, then all the people who don't know what they do or they

656
00:57:20,180 --> 00:57:25,060
don't want to do it, they also have access and that is the security gap. So access for everyone is

657
00:57:25,060 --> 00:57:32,980
just a no-no insecurity. And quite often people don't see this right now. I work a lot with dynamics

658
00:57:32,980 --> 00:57:38,900
customers and what dynamics customers do is they focus on dynamics. And they don't even know that

659
00:57:38,900 --> 00:57:44,980
if they have a dynamics license, there is a whole power platform underneath that is just as open as

660
00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:52,660
it is. No DLP, no environments, everyone has access and every administrator who is is like, oh my god,

661
00:57:52,660 --> 00:58:02,420
now, never. And that is something. So if you use Microsoft products, then even if it's a platform

662
00:58:02,420 --> 00:58:05,620
as a source and not a software as a source and there is a difference from the very beginning,

663
00:58:05,620 --> 00:58:12,260
you know that you have some effort to do in terms of setting up and securing it according to

664
00:58:12,260 --> 00:58:18,020
your business needs. It's not like, switch it on, everything is fine, like DLP, as you just mentioned,

665
00:58:18,740 --> 00:58:24,820
that is maybe the fifth key knowledge card for governance and security in the Microsoft universe.

666
00:58:24,820 --> 00:58:31,300
Microsoft gives you lots of great opportunities and cool tools, but you have to check them out and

667
00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:35,220
understand them and set them up according to your needs. Otherwise, it can get risky.

668
00:58:35,220 --> 00:58:44,980
Okay. I have in every session a rapid fire round, so I give a short question and you give a short

669
00:58:44,980 --> 00:58:50,900
answer. So, um, once sentence describe good power platform governance for you.

670
00:58:50,900 --> 00:59:02,820
Clarity and intention. Okay. The biggest mistake make us do on the power platform.

671
00:59:02,820 --> 00:59:08,340
Assuming that it's easy. The biggest mistake that IT does on the power platform?

672
00:59:08,340 --> 00:59:13,860
Ignoring it because it's just low code. What's the best coach in Cologne?

673
00:59:14,260 --> 00:59:26,020
Best coach. A coach. Oh, tricky. Zion. Okay. One governance topic that gets too far to a little attention.

674
00:59:26,020 --> 00:59:31,460
The whole government stop it gets to his attention.

675
00:59:31,460 --> 00:59:36,980
What did you think?

676
00:59:39,140 --> 00:59:43,700
Yeah, either one of the small words, shadow IT or blocked innovation.

677
00:59:43,700 --> 00:59:56,100
Ah. Um, shadow IT. Okay. If such a analysis comes to you and say, Michael,

678
00:59:56,100 --> 01:00:01,620
you get all the resources and money you need to make a feature on the power platform governance.

679
01:00:01,620 --> 01:00:05,940
What feature will you develop? I would decline that offer.

680
01:00:08,180 --> 01:00:15,140
And maybe, maybe I can give a reason for that because what I'm good at is working on specific

681
01:00:15,140 --> 01:00:20,340
solutions with people and finding out their needs and their setup. I help them

682
01:00:20,340 --> 01:00:25,220
become the experts for their own work environment and for their own work.

683
01:00:25,220 --> 01:00:31,700
And I'm not someone who develops features. Others can do that. Maybe I will take the resource and

684
01:00:31,700 --> 01:00:37,220
give that to someone else, but help them figure out what they want to do and why. That's, that's a point.

685
01:00:37,940 --> 01:00:44,980
Yeah. So, yeah. Um, then, uh, who shall I invite next and what questions should I ask?

686
01:00:44,980 --> 01:00:50,260
I have a good, good, good names, uh, a few good names, but I don't know who's

687
01:00:50,260 --> 01:00:56,980
been in your show recently. So I would have to check that. But, um, from the top of my head,

688
01:00:56,980 --> 01:01:03,060
I'm thinking about my brilliant UK colleagues, like Simon Owen or, um, Craig White, for example.

689
01:01:03,060 --> 01:01:11,220
Um, and someone who is a real power platform hero that I hardly see someone in the community is

690
01:01:11,220 --> 01:01:18,260
native to Adolf. Okay. And he is just great. He's from the UK as well. Um, never met him before, I think,

691
01:01:18,260 --> 01:01:25,540
but he is great. And I'm just living on his, um, on his blog post recently because he is really

692
01:01:25,540 --> 01:01:31,940
good at ALM. The whole, the whole guitar pipeline thingy. That is something where I learn a lot right now.

693
01:01:32,900 --> 01:01:39,460
Yeah. So, yeah. I can thank you so much for being here. I think this was an excellent talk.

694
01:01:39,460 --> 01:01:42,980
Yeah. We have a lot of, yeah, we have the big five.

695
01:01:42,980 --> 01:01:52,020
Uh, done. Yeah. And I think, yeah, this was, was really great. I think that we have a lot,

696
01:01:52,020 --> 01:01:57,700
a lot, we have good takeaways. And we have, uh, also, I think the reframing for the governance,

697
01:01:57,700 --> 01:02:04,580
it's really, really cool. And yeah, so thank you for, for staying here. The hour with me and on the

698
01:02:04,580 --> 01:02:11,060
podcast. Yeah. Thanks for having me. It was fun. Let's do it again sometime. Yeah. Yeah. I'm open.

699
01:02:11,060 --> 01:02:16,260
I'm open. So then we can do the security part. Oh, yeah. That's another story.

700
01:02:16,260 --> 01:02:26,260
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