From Low-Code to Pro-Code- The Rise of Power Apps Code Apps with Carike Botha [MVP]

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Welcome back to the N365 show.

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And yeah, at this podcast,

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we talk about people, products, and ideas

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shaping the Microsoft 365 ecosystem.

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Today's guest is Craig Boehr, Microsoft MVP,

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Power Platform, and she's just the

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developer community organization.

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And someone who generally believes

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there's always a smarter way to automate things.

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And the engineering is well known for power platform community

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for combining technical experience with creativity, fun,

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and community-driven energy from Power Apps code

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to co-pilot studio and also Power Automate.

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She helped develop our citizens,

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rethinking how modern business applications are built.

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In this episode, we talk about evolution of low code,

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pro-coder development, and how AI changing the Microsoft ecosystem.

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The future of Power Platform development,

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and why automation should actually be enjoyable.

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Craig, welcome to the show.

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Thank you so much, Merca, and thank you so much for that

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awesome introduction.

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Really happy to be here.

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Yeah, and if there are listeners that didn't know you,

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how is Craig Boehr, the IMVP title?

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Perfect. Thank you so much for that question.

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So, first of all, behind the IMVP title,

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I'm a software developer by IGAY.

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And in the evenings, I do enjoy watching a bit of Korean drama.

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So that's something that I really enjoy.

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And if it's not that, I enjoy watching a little bit of anime.

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But typically, my day job consists of building solutions in Power Apps

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or Power Automate, and recently, obviously, Coke Pilot,

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building things with agents.

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So, you're, that's me.

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Yeah, what's your favorite anime?

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My favorite anime is One Piece.

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Oh, okay, okay.

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Then, let's think, what was the One Piece that brought you into the Microsoft ecosystem?

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That is such a funky question. I love to play on wording there.

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That what brought me into the Microsoft ecosystem,

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I actually started my career in West SharePoints.

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So, I was working with SharePoint when it was still SharePoint 2007.

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So, and from there, I really enjoyed the,

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the drag and drop functionality, you know,

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what would you get got with, where SharePoint forms,

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and then I got exposed to info path.

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And then obviously, being a SharePoint administrator,

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when Power Platform came out, there was such a natural transition to move to that.

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So, yeah, that's kind of how I got into the Microsoft ecosystem.

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And what, what pulled you specifically into the Power Platform?

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From your SharePoint?

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Into Power Platform.

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It was, obviously, it was something that I saw it was something new.

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It was released, I think, around about 2015.

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And it was very exciting because I mean, I've never worked really with the likes of Dynamics 365 at that time yet.

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So, seeing a new way of building apps, you know, so,

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and because it's low code, so I do have some background in custom days.

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But when I saw this, there's this much easier way and simpler way to build applications for both web and mobile,

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and I was quite intrigued and I thought, I definitely want to see what this platform can do.

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And that's kind of how I got into the Power Platform.

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Yeah, I see.

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You describe yourself as someone who always asks, "There must be a better way to automate this."

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Well, do this mindset come from?

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It comes from having to maintain spreadsheets or capturing time sheets.

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And so all these mundane tasks that we regularly work with and things that is so repetitive

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and being obviously, once again, being part of the SharePoint ecosystem

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and knowing about NINTEX workflows and even SharePoint workflows,

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seeing how things can get automated.

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And then Power Automate came out and it was just such a natural progression into that.

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I might desire to have get rid of those mundane tasks, those things that feel,

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in South Africa, we would call it donkey work because it's something that you almost do mindlessly,

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but you have to get it off your task list.

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And that's why I absolutely love automation because it really helps us get rid of that tediousness of having to do something over and over and over again.

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You could probably just automate it.

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Yeah, one of the one automation you created that made you a way of proud yourself.

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One automation that I've done that's made me proud of myself.

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Hmm, I have to think now, what's, I've built quite a few workflows and some of them are super, super simple way people are just trying to either populate a word document.

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The ones that we've built as of recent is the ones where that take hours off of people's day off work where they have to manually capture something in a proposal,

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because there's so many people that has to put proposals together.

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And obviously having to go sometimes they're redoes reinvent the wheel when there's actually something already available.

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So a solution that's really that I've seen and we've helped build is having people find the documents that they're looking for by means of an agent.

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And then it pre-populates documents for them.

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Obviously worth that comes the need to have your data a little bit cleaned up because the agents and the workflow can only work as well as your data is structured.

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A little bit about power apps, but you are specialized in power apps code apps. What what are code apps?

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I'm so glad you asked so code apps is a recent addition to to the power platform space.

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So historically we only had canvas apps and model driven apps right and model driven apps was very much focused towards the dynamics.

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You see five space and it was very structured forms because it's got if it's got a nice process behind it, they model driven apps was the way to go canvas apps allowed you a little bit more leeway where you can design.

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It's almost like a blank canvas like a blank canvas where you could just paint whatever you want.

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And then I think it was at the start, they started talking about it last year and early this year it got it went general availability code ads is really changing the game because with canvas apps even though we could customize a lot there was.

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As and as much as it's a low code no code platform there was still a lot that a person had to do especially a citizen developer had to at least know a little bit of logic and obviously the more complex the solution the more people had to tweak a little bit on to get the canvas after to do exactly what they wanted.

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And then the code apps is changing the game completely where you can with natural language say I need to build a time sheet system and I need to capture projects that's active projects at closing start and end date very much as harm speaking to you if we were thinking of an act together we could put that into the prompt and it would build the most beautiful app it is using react and view.

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So it's not around but citizen developers they don't really need to know the details of that they just get a very good looking app that ties into data verse or all their data sources.

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So that's only for citizen world pass or is there also optional for proly ballapas to use code.

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Absolutely opportunity I think it's such a the code apps is really I mean previously when we had the distinction between low code developers or citizen developers versus pro dev.

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It was quite a bit of a hassle because as I've mentioned I do double in the custom dev side of things as well and be able to build good looking canvas apps as a pro dev was oftentimes a little bit of a tedious task.

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Because you have to like link to the power platform service in visual studio code added was yaml driven and whereas now pro coders can also because it's doing being developed in react and view so the pro developers were fed knowledge can can

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better enhance the code app so even though a citizen developer can use natural language due to build with that pro coders can also use the likes of Claude code or get up CLI and further enhance those apps so it is really that bridge between a low code and a pro code dev in my opinion.

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You need that data was also when you developed and co co co yeah power apps the code app yeah so there's these two ways that we can build code apps currently in public preview is what we have you would navigate to vibe dot power apps dot com.

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When you use that one the default data source is dead of us and unfortunately that cannot be changed but if you build a code app using either the get up CLI or using Claude code you can connect it to whatever data source you want so that can be excuse me dead of us it can be share point you decide what that data source is so if you build it straight from the CLI there's no need to do.

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Dataverse as a default it's just if you use vibe dot taraks dot com that is when it defaults to to dataverse and in what problem do code absolve that traditional perhaps try to with your perspective.

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Well first of all I have to mention design I mean from just a UI perspective the apps that code apps build or put together is absolutely beautiful from a static perspective and I think what it really gets right and typically if you had to build something like that in a canvas app I mean canvas apps are amazing and the modern controls is also good the recent modern controls that they've updated is amazing.

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But with the code app the galleries the sorting having something that just pops up and you have like ability to input that yes you can build it in the canvas app but it's just so much easier with it with a code app to put that together it you get to do that so much faster than you would with the canvas app.

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What you say code apps is also enterprise ready or is it more for have a little bit fun and that's such a good question I know we get that a lot so I absolutely think code apps is enterprise really just for the me effect that we can connect it to different data sources you can also kick off power automate flows from a code app so it's absolutely enterprise really and once again as with the.

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Power Platform something that we should be aware of is with with power apps when building any power app it is for internal use right it's not necessarily external facing so it's for your internal people to use when we move to people external facing that's when we start building power pages.

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And we have this topic but what did you think about governance and club compliance with this power app code apps.

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So that's such a good question governance I think also that's going to be a very interesting space I haven't deviled I haven't even had the chance to dabble a little bit into how would we govern a code app but some of the governance measures that I know is currently in place is still your.

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Your usual things is making sure that people can only create or connect to certain connectors when it comes to custom connectors so I think once again from a governance perspective if you have your your DLP or data loss prevention policies in place and you've got your permissions set up all of those things should apply to your code apps as well I think it just broadens the rise in a little bit in terms of the code and where that.

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The code and where that code loves and but I think the guard rails I think that's also what makes the code the code apps enterprise release because you building this code app inside of the guard rails of the power platform that already takes into account to Microsoft security and the things that exist in the Microsoft ecosystem in versus a app that you build that lives outside of the power platform ecosystem.

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Is there any I say misconceptions, people currently have about code apps for your perspective.

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Yeah, absolutely I think a lot of people as we know the world is really AI seems to be something that we eat for breakfast lunch and dinner every single day that's literally the talk of every topic all around the world.

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And I think one of the misconceptions and this has been around the power power platform as started as a low code no code kind of tooling there's always this misconception of low code equals low cost or low discipline which means that because it's low code we don't necessarily and because it loves in this Microsoft ecosystem we don't have it to give it as much as attention as we would a custom development.

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And all these things are misconceptions because as much as it's low code you still have licensing that you need to look at you still have security pipelines to ensure that your users are building and deploying these apps correctly governing the users in terms of who's got access to bold and who doesn't have access to build because you can't just go wild and give everyone access to go ahead and build these code apps.

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And because they could potentially be exposing company data to the wrong people so I do believe that when people hear low code no code they kind of it might seem like it to it might seem like it's not as real as something that's called custom dev.

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I don't know.

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Yeah and do you think the change the future of the role of citizen the battle part.

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I do believe that it does to some extent I mean I was petrified being a low code developer myself and really that's that's the the dominant feature of my daily job.

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Last chatting with one of the conferences the opening keynote said low code is dead and I was like what do you mean.

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But I do think it is changing the dynamic of a citizen developer. I do believe it's giving birth to a new type of engineer that wouldn't just necessarily focus on the app that they're building for but they so much more that they would need to look into all this engineer would need to see no business process.

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Obviously you you X you Y but also understand how to secure and how to architect this is so that it fits in with the rest of the organization's ecosystem.

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This is really interesting I think a lot of yeah I think a lot of you know I think I have a little bit problem as bachelor security guy with with the with yeah low code.

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What what did you think coldness had produced fiction between it team is and business users and and how should it I don't know moderate between this both yeah these both fractions.

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And I think it's going to depend on the culture of an organization and possibly the culture of the team.

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And the organization or even a team the culture at an organization is the sort where they are very future innovation driven.

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I don't believe or foresee that being a problem because in that ecosystem if they've got a culture of let's empower each other to build if I can empower you to build something so that you don't have to wait six months for me to eventually get to build that solution that you're waiting for.

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Then I even if I was a pro devs I've definitely empowered and I've played a part in you succeeding but I know there's also a lot of organizations and a lot of team cultures where instead of it being people growth focused it's very cost driven focus and rightfully so because even once again in the space of AI things cost a lot so some some companies don't have the liberty or the the.

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Opportunity to lose money so they are very cost driven so in that instance I would say if you obviously hand this task over to the wrong person or business user that just goes and creates things the easter risk of a user maybe creating an app and because they didn't understand that perhaps it was better to use a service account and they didn't understand governance they built a very flimsy app that is unreliable and let's say they leave the company.

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And now no one knows how to to further continue maintaining this app that's where a real risk sits and I think that's possibly when you when you get to IT teams that's that's the things that IT teams worry about so I guess if we can change the culture where IT teams can start educating business users about you know the things that they might not think about they can build a very good ecosystem.

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Similar to and I'm sure you've heard of the same tough excellence that that the power platform we've got the powercat team is build a brilliant COE and we've got champions that you allow to build apps because they've been taught the right ways of doing things and I think if we can get back then you would have a good team culture.

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Yeah, I think I'm amazing talking about I think a little bit when should you use the user power apps code apps or when should they use co pilots you know.

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Oh, that is such a good question and this is something that I speak to customers regularly about is because obviously once again AI is all the hype at the moment and everybody just wants to do AI and they want to build an agent because that's what everybody's doing and they feel if they don't do that they might get left behind because that's kind of the message that's being sent across the globe.

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But if you look at the process is that I've had this with so many clients is typically when they come to us as consultants with a problem you could easily argue to find say this isn't really an agent or a autonomous thing it's it's just a process that needs a little bit of automation so there's not really a need here for specifically a co pilot agent it's just a nice workflow that you would need maybe someone didn't have a UI they've been using Excel and a lot of people love.

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They work loves in Excel but if if you just kind of automate or just make it a little bit easier for them I think that would be the the defining way of determining whether someone should use whether it's just an app or whether it becomes a co pilot and I think these days there's so much cross pollination between the tech stacks that it is actually becoming harder and harder even for us as consultants to kind of recommend what's the best way for you.

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That's the best way forward because there's so many different ways that you can do things that you really really need to go into the deeper level of what the organization's infrastructure is but besides that what's their goal where do they want to be and these and these days you can't even really create long term goals because what AI looks like today can be completely different tomorrow or even a week from now.

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So it actually makes planning and architecting so critical.

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So we can say when we're talking one piece the co pilot studios more than I's Robin and the power abs code is more the my OCD fluffy or how did you see it?

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The power platform is absolutely monkey D. Luffy being the captain of the ship but co pilot I would say co pilot is almost like one of those devil fruits that gives you this extra but let you do something additional but it has its cave yes right because then you eat a devil fruit you can't swim.

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It's a win but they some compromise that happens.

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You are along in the power platform. Yeah ecosystem how how have I changed the power platform ecosystem and practical terms for you.

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100% I think it's changed it quite a lot right because I was actually just having a conversation with a colleague today where we were saying we can't even remember what life was like before the likes of co pilot and Claude you know and all these AI services that we now make use of daily.

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To assist us in helping us do our job better in the power platform space what what where AI has really brought a lot of value for me personally is the fact that there's so many ways the data can enter the system now.

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If I look at co pilot and the fact that we have an ncp tool that we can connect to the likes of data verse and yeah from from what I've seen in the team they are continuously building these ncp servers that just makes entering data so much easier and I think the end result is just.

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We want to make it as easy as possible for the user that's going to be capturing this information so I think from that aspect in the power platform and now being able I think one of the recent things i've seen announced is that you can now in model driven app bring in co pilot and you can kind of ask information about the data or into the rows or manipulate the data but in natural language.

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I think that's such a game changing the power platform space.

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I see a lot of I don't know Microsoft brings a lot of new tools features co pilot skills notebooks co worker working I and so on I'm a little bit overwhelmed with this but.

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Well you different between AI hype and actually useful AI business automations.

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Just repeat that question for me yeah what's the difference between AI hype and actual useful AI business automations.

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100% that's such a good question yes because AI hype happens when I mean like you say there's so many features and things being released and and there's sort of daily basis these days that it's such an influx of information and I always look at it in the in the likes of as a AI or a modeling language I mean if we take gpt if we take

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Claude or even co pilot they have the ability to process heaps and yeaps of information and give us an output in an instant whereas us as humans we don't have that ability to just adapt and go adapt and go.

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So I do believe this constant release is is is is very overwhelming so what I see AI hype as is someone going on stage saying you can build this app in two easy steps you just have to type this prompt and you've got a into end at the truth of the matter is it isn't always that easy.

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They show you something simple on stage and people get excited and they just want to build these apps but the truth of the matter is each organization has their own niche in in how they operate and how the things are put together and I think we're AI really adds business value is is if we can save someone time let's say a task takes them.

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10 hours a day to complete and it's such a Monday task if we can automate it and they can get it done in an hour then we have added value but if it's something to just show that oh we we are using AI as well and then you prompted the AI just to find a policy.

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That's not that's not necessarily adding business value you add business value by adding hours to someone's day where previously they had they they were struggling to get to all the items that they have to do on their list because of these mundane tasks that could have been automated.

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There is I don't know it's the right word but I called the name I read so often especially I linked and it's it's called a little bit low code it's low work and no code is put but but so what what skills did you think need a city ball or a local developer and.

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Is it for my perspective it's when when you pro code are the most people they post us you you work especially in your I don't know in your environment and you get the instruction what you should build but.

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I perspective the no code you want to go to your own money at the business case and understand this how did you see it.

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I have to agree with you and I think for citizen devs considering I mean I come from an it background so oftentimes we think of we think of a lot of things that maybe sit in the citizen developers will not think about.

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But I think skills that citizen developers would need or even low code no code developers is if you have the ability to identify steps in a process that's already a good skill to have because then from there you will be able to identify based on the steps in this process what's the the workflows that I would need what's the type of app that I would build do we need an app.

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You know because all of these are valid questions it's it shouldn't be a thing of just because I have access to the tool now I should use it and I feel well obviously once the moment co pilot and agents came out that's kind of the way that people wind with it where they were like we just going to build agents for the sake of building agents.

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I think one of the skills that is really really important for a citizen dev is is having the ability to identify a good a very good use case within the business so that it's and even if they build the app just for themselves it's they can once again change the way that they they work in a more positive way so that it frees up the time then they've done something that's really good.

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But I do believe people should also have the skill of knowing what how to govern I think it's so important you know because sometimes what we have is you can have Susan in HR and maybe clearing finance and both of them are actually sitting with a similar scenario and because they're both citizens and developers they go off and and build an app but maybe they've build an app that's very similar in nature.

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If the proper guard rails was in place and they would have gone through the proper procedure and would have been able to rather work together on building an app that both of them can use instead of having almost like a duplicate app in the system.

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I think a little bit actually I think a little bit about the power platform you have all these tools and also power be I don't know what was searching but.

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What role did you think place power automate longer I don't see what why did we need power automate of the added reason for this.

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100% power automate is super powerful so even though it doesn't necessarily have a front end power automate is where we really put things together it's where we make systems talk to each other.

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It's really the glue between everything so it allows us to if a male comes in pool whatever is in that male and store it maybe in a shape point one drive a shape wonder one drive and so power automate is really the tool that helps us or assist us in automating mundane processes it really helps us take one thing over to another thing.

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And I do believe the flow so once again in co pilot with agents that's where the flows become really powerful between whether something is just a one so for workflow or where they become an autonomous process so I still believe that there's very much relevance for power automated really really very powerful tool.

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And from your perspective we have I say we have a good automation and we have a standout automation what's for you the different.

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Between a good automation and a standout automation.

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Guy I.

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So between a good automation and a standout automation is is really the amount of tasks that can be done without necessarily having humans do it so I know there's a lot of talk about people being scared because if we automate this process what's my role going to be.

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And a lot of people actually hold on to their jobs even though it's manual because they feel the moment that you automated they don't really know what they're going to do.

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But I think what's the difference between a good automation and a standout automation is if you can achieve exactly that if you could automate the process to such an extent that it really doesn't need a human to do that mundane task and you can free up a person's time.

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So that they have the opportunity to learn something else and focus on another task that is a bit more niche that isn't necessarily something that you would automate and that really is really a standout automation in comparison to a good automation.

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So I think there was a code I don't know how that present how it's gone I think the best automation of the automation low one sees I think something like like this.

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I don't know the other quote but also I don't know who who says we have also I don't know this.

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Yeah this topic creating apps with my wife.

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Did you think we are really in ready for this or does it work? I say okay.

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I don't know in power, I call apps or call parts so you are say okay I will I have this goal please create me this.

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I'm sorry what was the question about that question is can we are we in the time where we can say to a tool create me my goal that's really up to this my goal please make are we ready for this or are the tools right.

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For this or did we have a little bit more hard work on it.

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Under the scene so I think the tools are pretty good at this stage where it comes to like this is kind of what I want to achieve.

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And what I have seen is it's better to feed an AI small little chunks of information instead of a big BRAs.

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So typically if we think in a development space we would get a business requirements specification because of our reasoning ability as humans we can read through the document and go okay I think I have a good understanding but if I don't I'm going to go to the individual who put the document together and ask more questions to get clarity before I just go and do.

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And I think that's the difference with AI at the moment is we give it information it goes oh I understand exactly what you mean and then it goes and build something and it didn't quite understand exactly what you mean.

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Because it's still just a language model that's that's learned is looking at the base probability to feed you but it went ahead and did something without asking questions.

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However I have been seeing with the most recent models that's being released that it is actually starting to do that as it wears as a human if I was unclear would ask questions I've been seeing that a lot in the AI where it goes just to make sure that I understand what it is that you are asking and then it is actually putting out some questions for you to answer so almost off to clarify.

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But it isn't always the case so it is definitely improving I wouldn't say it's there where you can comfortably go this is what I want pops up what you want and you like this is amazing from the get go and there is still work that needs to be done but I think the more we play with AI and the more we it kind of learns out of what it is that we looking for it will definitely improve.

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Actually I run an experiment I try to build the worst highly amazing copilot ever I call it a Shopify and yeah so I have another product another development that creates a lot of realistic tenants.

190
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And then the Trumpi fire takes the worst of all and so I try to get the worst copilot ever I will look what's happened.

191
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But yeah I think when you look a little bit into the future and I know your MVP so you're a little bit restricted to tell us where you know but where did you see the power platform in the next year.

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Oh in the next year my goodness that's going quite a hitting time and well just based on what we know and what I've seen released so far right.

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I definitely think code apps is going to be the future and and I'm actually quite curious to see how is going to change the infrastructure layout and how we.

194
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The range here between should this be something where someone because I think that's for me also at this stage the thing where I really don't know.

195
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And it's really hard to guide users it's going to really depend on what it is what they need is because if I look at what copilot can do with agents at this stage and having in CP servers where someone can in a natural language go.

196
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Hey let's say you've bought a system that's an idea system for someone to capture ideas and people no longer really need a form like input they could just go into agent and go.

197
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I have this idea can you help me log it and because of the ncp service being so powerful it knows the data structure so it goes okay this is kind of the fields that i'm looking for so can you.

198
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I'll be put give this detail so that it could it could fill in the details into the form so I think going forward it's going to really.

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I'm curious to see what it would look like are we going to still be entering details or information in the in the actual UI or would it become a natural fucking thing almost like if like with iron man we just goes drivers at this for me or at me right.

200
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Really funny I have built a Jarvis for on copilot based on my PC.

201
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I was a little bit bored yeah.

202
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So on all on the most.

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Cop podcast episodes I have a rapid fire out I asked some questions and you say the first thing would come in your in your mind are you ready.

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I am ready very powerful from to right now.

205
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And go that's one Microsoft future more people should know about.

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I would say the windows and full stop key so that we can quickly add emojis one automation every while trouble in the company.

207
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The automation of doing time sheets coffee to you are doing by coding.

208
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Coffee coffee okay most underrated productivity habit.

209
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Underrated productivity habit like goodness.

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I think taking a five minute break so standing up and walking around and coming back.

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The best dish in New Zealand.

212
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A best dish in New Zealand.

213
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I have no idea fish and chips.

214
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One technology trend you are watching closely.

215
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Technology trained I would say autonomous agents.

216
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When Microsoft come to you and say we give you all the money the time and the people you you you need what product will you build.

217
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Something that can make me enough money so that I don't have to work again.

218
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I think there is one app or two you can live without.

219
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At the moment it has to be parrots.

220
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If you weren't working in tech what would you be doing.

221
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Marine moreology.

222
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Let's go a bit more private and talk about a deaf culture community and creativity.

223
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I see you bring a lot of personality and credibility and creativity into the tech community.

224
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Why do this for you so much better?

225
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I love working in the community.

226
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I am part of the Johannesburg Microsoft developer user group as well as the Johannesburg power platform user group.

227
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I am actively involved in any tech community that is available local because I believe the students are our future.

228
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We have to equip them with the necessary tools and information so that they can vote the tools of the future.

229
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What did you think for people that are really new in the Microsoft ecosystem?

230
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How will they enter the scene become part of the community?

231
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100%.

232
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The two places that we are very active on is obviously meetup.com and LinkedIn.

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I would also say go word of mouth.

234
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Sometimes what I have seen is a lot of people get stuck in the day to day jobs that they don't really go out to see, hey, is there a community for the stuff that I am doing?

235
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I think for those that are entering the Microsoft tech space or not even just the Microsoft tech space.

236
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I think a lot of people under value, the value that someone has is really good in Excel and someone is really good in word or PowerPoint or even outlook.

237
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I think people realize how valuable or how much they can teach people because you might be doing something in outlook that me as a tech person working in IT don't even know about and you can help me even be though I work in tech, you can help me become more productive.

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I've seen this so many times is the moment someone shares just something that adds value to day life.

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They actually help all everyone else to do stuff faster.

240
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Around the world or especially in the US we have all those big tech companies and I think a little bit about the Microsoft community is very special.

241
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I lost this community.

242
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What is your opinion? What make these communities so great for you or for the people?

243
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100% it is absolutely the people right. I mean from a tool perspective there's so many tools up there. I mean we've got the likes of Microsoft we've got Google we've got AWS we've got people that are necessarily these big names.

244
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But I think it's the people that makes the Microsoft community such a vibrant one and such an exciting one to be part of is the fact that everybody so willingly and freely shares the knowledge that they have.

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I think that's what makes the community so powerful.

246
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And what is the one piece or yeah what is the one piece that for you.

247
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That makes you stay in the community.

248
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100% I think it's the fact that I love seeing people grow and having that visibility on someone who maybe because we have been in the community for so many years.

249
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And that's how I started right because I managed to to look up the community and I found a few local communities that I could attend and people were so welcoming and so keen for me to grow that I really want to impart that to others as well.

250
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And it's just that real friendships that gets formed by being part of the community that's what makes me stay.

251
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And if you were a character in one piece which data fluid will you want to and how will you use it to improve your power platform development.

252
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Man I would absolutely be chopper.

253
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I love chopper chopper is so cute and how I would use it is chopper is the doctor.

254
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So I would use that in power platform to doctor it all the the the processes that's wrong or wonky I would like to fix that.

255
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I have another question.

256
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What when we think about this this draw out pirates when you can build their application.

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What was he built.

258
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I would absolutely build them an application so that they can just have a map so I would build something for for for Nani or Nami so that she can all the maps that she's drawn she can have the data on it as well as a list of all the bad guys so that they know who to avoid.

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So my final question for today is when the people that I listened to the episode what's the one thing they really take it from from you.

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So if they listen to this episode today I think what they should really take from today is don't be afraid to learn.

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So I think that tools can be a little intimidating and even learning a little bit more about them around the security and governance I know when we talk about security and governance it can seem a little intimidating but please don't hesitate to learn and don't hesitate to reach out to the community.

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I think that's one of the things that really hold people back is we are just a conversation away and we just as much human as everybody else so please feel free to ask.

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I was going to say thank you this was was awesome so yeah by our true that was like both of Microsoft MVP power platform advocate community leader and someone provided the automation can add to the big graduate and fun.

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If you enjoyed this episode make sure you subscribe to podcast and thank you for listening and thank you for staying with me yet.

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It's more amazing amazing session and I think all the people can come if they have a question about the tools or one piece they find all the information about you in the show notes so thank you it was amazing.

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Thank you so much, Merca and thank you so much for all the awesome questions that you asked today really appreciate it.

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Bye have a good day.