AI, Power Platform & Developer Experience: The Next Frontier with Reza Niroomand [MVP]

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Yeah, welcome back to the Ampest 65 podcast.

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Today we are diving into one of the most interesting shifting

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happening in the Microsoft ecosystem.

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While everybody is talking about a I co-pilot,

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low-code development, there's another movement

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gaining momentum bringing software engineering principles

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back into power platform.

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Our guest today is Riza Nimor,

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but solution architect software engineer,

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creator of XMR truodes and PS data

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and servers and someone who spend years

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helping the developer's building better,

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more reliable, Microsoft solution.

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We'll explore why code thruers development

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matters more than ever,

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how AI is changing in way of developing solutions,

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why everything as code is being essential

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and what the future of power platform development looks like.

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Wherever you are a power platform maker,

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professional developer solution architect

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or simply curious about where Microsoft development

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ecosystem is heading, this conversation

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is practically inside.

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So let's start.

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Welcome Riza to the show.

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- Hello, thank you for having me.

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- Yeah.

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Can you tell us before we start

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with these interesting topics a little bit

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about yourself and what you are organically

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attract you to the Microsoft ecosystem?

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- Right.

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In fact, I had a very long journey.

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I started since I was a kid, started writing codes.

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I mean, the goal was to create a game probably for myself.

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I don't know how I ended up building business applications

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and enterprise solutions.

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But yeah, it was, it all starts with coding normally.

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- Yeah, awesome.

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Yeah, I think there is one guy that have made

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some games in the power platform.

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But I forgot who boiled it.

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Yeah, I'm as half, I've seen those.

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Yeah, and also Sandra Kiel, she makes sessions

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about gamification in power apps.

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It's also really interesting.

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But yeah, you have work across.net, SharePoint,

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Adrien Power Platform.

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How has your journey shaped your architectural thinking?

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- Yeah, in fact, I started with the hard one.

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I started with SMD language because at the time,

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that was the only way to have fluid graphic.

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I think I started with mouse.

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I wanted to have a pointer.

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That was when Microsoft Windows was not really

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an operating system.

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So I had to deal with the pointer

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and detect when mouse moves and stuff like that.

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So you realize very quickly that with those low level languages,

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you cannot do a lot.

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You can have very focused things.

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So you start learning a higher level language like C.

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And then you go and see, okay, even that is not enough.

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You go to something higher.

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Like at the time, it was visual basic.

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So we had a nice marriage of visual basic and C++.

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So if something needs to be done in really high quality

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or extreme good performance,

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that would have been C++ or special components.

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So the low code of the time was visual basic.

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I think before that, the low code was a cobalt.

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So it was supposed to revolutionize the world, you know?

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You just write no code and everything is done.

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It never happened.

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So you met, they kept trying and trying the low code,

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the train and then here we are.

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You know, we have the low code which looks more like Excel

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for Mulas, for example.

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So I went along with the industry everywhere.

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So I came from that area to .NET and then .NET tried to bridge

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that gap of productivity like within language,

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that set of languages, in fact, that tried to be everything.

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Low level, high level, mid level, maybe not too low,

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but somewhere there.

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So you don't have to learn a lot of languages in your remaining

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one language and you can pretty much do all the stuff.

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There was several light, if you remember.

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You could use the same language even in the browser.

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Didn't last long, though.

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And that's for good because the technology came along.

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So I went with it.

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So normally in enterprise application developments,

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you ask yourself, okay, we are using really professional tools

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like we are writing code, we start from scratch these applications,

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but the security model of the big enterprise

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doesn't shift overnight, right?

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It remains stable.

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There are certain things that remain stable

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and they are kind of accepted unofficially across the enterprises.

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So it kind of feels boring.

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You want something that you can do it a lot faster.

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At the time, it was SharePoint and SharePoint had something

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called InfoPath.

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With that it would be like mini applications,

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like large data entry forms, things like that.

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And you could have public facing applications.

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So you can't see I'm still doing the same.

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It's the technology that changes around me.

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I still continue doing the same.

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So then SharePoint stopped trying to be everything

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because Power Platform came along and it was basically

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defined as the low-cut platform

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before the AI era, right?

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It's still accurate, but it's no longer sufficient

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because Power Platform is becoming something

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broader in an enterprise application and agent platform

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for humans and low-code makers and products.

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And AI agents can all participate in building

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and operating business solution.

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Yeah.

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Here I am again doing the same thing

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in a totally different way.

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Yeah.

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When Power Platform first appeared,

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what did you think about it?

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Right, well, I didn't go exactly the first,

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I mean head on to it.

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I usually stay cool and relax and wait until something

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mature enough, right?

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So a lot of people are normally go head first

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and try, thanks to them, we learn the pitfalls and everything.

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The platforms are not something that I embrace

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since the beginning.

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So software development itself, yeah, I go fast

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and I try to learn before, everything becomes revolutionary,

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but the platforms I wait.

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So at the beginning, yeah.

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I was working for one of the biggest insurance companies

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in the world, I think.

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And then, so we have probably,

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I remember from one of the architects

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we were using more than 300 technologies in the enterprise.

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And, but, you know, we did all sorts of things.

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I could see that whatever we do,

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we are wasting a lot of time and resources.

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I'm to a platform like Power Platform,

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you have a lot of things that you take for granted,

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but for an outsider like me,

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just watching the platform shape, I could see,

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okay, there is a very, very mature security model.

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There is deployment in place.

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It might not be the best in the world,

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but it's there and it's maintainable

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and you're not responsible for all of it.

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You can be more focused on the business problem at hand.

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And if ever you build something

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like a pro-devil kind of component, it's for good

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because you're building it since the beginning

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to be reusable, even better, you,

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well, preferably you are going to share it

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with the rest of the community as well.

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So that caught my eyes.

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Okay, I said, okay, this is the one thing

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that I need to jump into.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, what defines a great Power Platform architecture

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from real-perfectors?

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Yeah, well, that's also shifting, you know,

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it's shifting a lot because, you know,

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the Power Platform itself is shifting.

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So maybe a good way to see it,

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I don't know if you will agree with me or not.

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But I would see it like three generations.

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So I have my generational perspective.

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So the first generation was the low-code productivity.

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So Gen 1, let's call it Gen 1, the low-code productivity.

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So that first generation was focused

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on democratizing software creation, right?

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So Power Apps gave organizations a faster way

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to create internal business applications.

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That was a title for SharePoint, I guess,

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but it was stolen by Power Platform.

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Mates?

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Allow to automate repetitive tasks, nobody likes.

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Power BI and made analytics more accessible.

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Dataverse offered and managed business data platform.

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I don't think we have that anywhere else.

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Dataverse is the business data platform,

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with security and metadata and relationship

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and all the things and the business logic in one place, right?

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The central value proposition was, I think, speed, right?

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Instead of waiting months for development team,

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a default could build a useful app

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in a matter of days or weeks, done right?

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This was a major step forward, right?

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That's what I was sold on, right?

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The professional developers sometimes sell this low-code

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as too restrictive or insufficiently disciplined,

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measures found the traditional software development,

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too complex, I think.

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And the department worried about uncontrolled application

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growth and weak lifecycle management

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and duplicate data and stuff like that.

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Then you had Gen2, which is the fusion development,

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my favorite.

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That was the second generation, until recently.

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So you had the idea was that you have a fusion team

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that combines business experts,

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low-code makers, IT professionals, architects,

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and software developers and each participant

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had to contribute to an appropriate abstraction level, right?

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Then a business expert may define the process,

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the maker built the initial app, a prototype,

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creates the custom connector, plugins,

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components, API, and then the administrator

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establishes the security and governance.

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Now the architect, in that era,

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ensured the overall system remains coherent

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among all of them, right?

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This model recognized an important reality.

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So the person who understands the business problem,

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best or better than everyone is not always the person

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who should implement every technical component, right?

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So Power Platform became the shared environment

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in which these rows could collaborate.

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Now we are starting the third gem,

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which is the AI native fusion, right?

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So we are still fusion-deving,

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in lack of a better word, but it's AI native.

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So we are now entering a third generation

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where AI joins that fusion team.

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So AI can help, so it's in every layer, you know?

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- Uh-huh.

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- Help describe the requirement, generate the data model,

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create the app, formulate a power-effect somewhere,

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an expression, build a cloud flow, generate code,

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document it, inspect metadata, query the data,

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operate even the business process.

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So this does not eliminate the existing roles.

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You still have the same roles.

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Instead it changes how they spend their time, basically.

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So the maker moves from manually placing every control

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on the canvas to describe the outcome

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and check the results, basically.

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The developer spends less time writing repetitive

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plumbing and more time on the architecture.

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So somebody is entering that area, right?

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And the domain logic, the integration, quality,

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and the performance, so they have more time

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for these things now.

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The architect now, Purgayk, must find not only the application

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and integrations, but also the boundaries within which

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these agents can reason and act.

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The administrator as well.

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So they must govern both human-created solutions

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and autonomous or semi-autonomous agents, right?

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They reason as well.

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So this is the emerging model now.

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Business users express the intent.

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AI accelerates the implementation.

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Developers add precision and extensibility,

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the quality and the platform provides

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again, security, governance, data.

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So if you look at it with AI, we can do more,

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but there is more for everybody to do as well.

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- Let's more to govern, more to handle.

267
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:32,000
What mistakes do you see actually in this power platform?

268
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,920
The company work with, is there, yeah,

269
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,200
rapidly mistakes?

270
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,200
- Well, each company is in a different,

271
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,600
because it moves fast.

272
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,560
And companies are still the same companies.

273
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,800
They didn't change their speed, right?

274
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,720
So the adoption, depending on the complexity of an enterprise,

275
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,320
is different.

276
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,040
And also the risk level they can accept, right?

277
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,680
Some enterprises are even built in a more modern way

278
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,320
that they can absorb the risk.

279
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,080
So they can allow mistakes to happen.

280
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,400
That's the best enterprise to work with, right?

281
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,320
They, even if they cannot take the risk,

282
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,680
they have some way to allow the risk to happen

283
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:21,840
to learn from it.

284
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:22,880
That would be the best.

285
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,560
But some enterprises, like, for example,

286
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,560
if you look at banks, they are very,

287
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,320
they are very, and they're competitive.

288
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,640
They don't want to be the first for good reason.

289
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,720
So, if you ask a company that is where, like a bank,

290
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,360
for example, they are probably a little bit behind.

291
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,800
But if you look at a company with repetitive tasks,

292
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,280
like customer facing scenarios,

293
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,520
even if it's an interest, because insurance is a little bit,

294
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,800
less risk, ever standing bank,

295
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,920
they understand this proposition better

296
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,680
and they are able to absorb the risk in some departments.

297
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,920
So they are going ahead with it.

298
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,720
But the governance is creating the biggest problem.

299
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,080
So we are making everybody faster,

300
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,080
but we need some kind of oversight

301
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,680
and we are realizing that agents are not exactly humans

302
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,960
and they are not going to be very similar to human.

303
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,280
Kind of anytime soon.

304
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,560
So everybody is seeing that.

305
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,320
So Microsoft is changing their approach a little bit.

306
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,520
So they are giving us more tools.

307
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:41,040
We understand more that these agents are behaving differently

308
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:42,480
and how different they are.

309
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,720
There are mistakes happening again in every layer.

310
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,720
So because AI itself is in every layer,

311
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,960
it's in the interface helping the business users

312
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,520
of filling the forms.

313
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,160
It's automating the task,

314
00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,640
it's helping the developers to move faster,

315
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,240
but you have this concept of shadow IT,

316
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:06,800
which has returned in the,

317
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,360
still in the town, making problems for everybody,

318
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:14,960
administrators, an architects, everyone.

319
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,720
So we need to build tools that better keep us

320
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,200
against these problems popping up everywhere.

321
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,320
Yeah, I have a direct two questions,

322
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:30,080
but the first one is we have,

323
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,040
the old problem was in scalability was,

324
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,640
I need more developers to get my project faster.

325
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,320
Now I think scalability has a little bit changed

326
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,600
because everyone can do an app, I don't know, in a few minutes.

327
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,440
So how has scalability changed

328
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,440
and what must companies or IT

329
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,880
under IT guys understand when they're new,

330
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:56,880
a lot of scalability?

331
00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,760
Very good question, because all of us been watching.

332
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,760
So I think one of the catchphrases or the marketing

333
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:11,720
was that, okay, the AI is going to democratize app building,

334
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,680
but app is just a small piece of it.

335
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,720
So if you look around now,

336
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,480
if the AI has been around for a while,

337
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,920
you have even all these platforms like Lovable

338
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,240
and everything else that allow you to build apps,

339
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,560
but now the industry is full with these apps

340
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,840
that are kind of grickets did,

341
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,640
because creating app was not the biggest problem.

342
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,280
You could build apps fast, right?

343
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,040
It's a lot faster now, of course,

344
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,080
but there is a discipline to it.

345
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,080
Like how are you going to maintain it?

346
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,200
How are you going to secure it?

347
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:52,720
What is your target audience?

348
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,600
What is the architecture?

349
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,840
Where do you want your app to do your app to be like in five years?

350
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,640
Which arts are going to change?

351
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,360
So you see, all those concepts are still there,

352
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:08,040
and AI cannot help you with those.

353
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,200
So you have a lot of apps now that are a bit overnight

354
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,760
and forgotten over a week.

355
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,800
Or there were security issues

356
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,200
and even a good guy who was behind it,

357
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,360
he's over there now with the number of problems

358
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,960
that he has received, starts from scratch,

359
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,800
doing another app again.

360
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,400
So I see them everywhere,

361
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:34,560
but still those teams that are already equipped

362
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,120
with like a LEM in place,

363
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,560
with good vision, with discipline,

364
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,800
they are the ones moving faster than before.

365
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,760
So you can't see the teams that are benefiting more,

366
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,160
like 60% of their job is done by AI,

367
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,400
they claim, are doing the discipline teams.

368
00:19:55,400 --> 00:20:00,560
Because they have this control and everything in place.

369
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,400
They know how to scale their app

370
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,480
because they were prepared for it,

371
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,560
and AI is just making them much more productive.

372
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:08,560
Yeah.

373
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,440
And the second question is, yeah, I,

374
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:20,440
or how looks a clean architecture in the power platform

375
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,760
and for this new time of revenue development.

376
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,400
- It's one of those hard questions.

377
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,640
It all depends on the enterprise that you're dealing with.

378
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,640
So because the picture for a small company

379
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,200
is a bit different than the picture for a big enterprise

380
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,560
because of complexity that you will have to deal with.

381
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,320
I mean, even the estimations,

382
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,400
probably the most important factor

383
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,400
that can affect your estimation for building a solution

384
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,400
is the complexity of the enterprise.

385
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,920
- So you still, the old concepts are still there.

386
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,920
You have to answer questions of how you are going to build an app

387
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:16,760
and you should prepare as an architect to answer why.

388
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,680
So every piece of the architecture that somebody looks at,

389
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,800
you should be able to answer the why question in every layer,

390
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,120
why you are building it that way.

391
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,760
And most of the time,

392
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,320
the answer is not because this is the best way.

393
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,080
The answer is the right answer is that because it fits better.

394
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,160
Because some pieces of your solution

395
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,640
you are building maybe as a throw away

396
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,440
because the maturity of the business is not there,

397
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:46,480
for example, to sit.

398
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,720
So you invest less time on that.

399
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:53,720
You don't waste the time of your developers and your customer.

400
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,080
Some of them are like mature pieces,

401
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,840
for example, for performance, you will have to deal

402
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,160
with more complexity because the performance of that part

403
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,000
was critical.

404
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,000
I'm just throwing some examples.

405
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,000
So still need to answer questions like why in every layer,

406
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:16,600
you still need to have a good, organized, disciplined way

407
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,320
of ALM.

408
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,600
There is no customer where you don't need ALM, for example.

409
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,160
You need some sort of ALM because if you cannot package a software

410
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,200
and deliver it, it's like that software doesn't exist.

411
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,240
You should be able to do it in a repetitive way.

412
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,280
Developers should not spend time on figuring out how to deliver.

413
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,720
They should always spend time on building

414
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,200
because this is their happy moment.

415
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,400
If you ask a developer to not develop and do something else,

416
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,920
you're asking him to change his job, right?

417
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,440
You still need to answer the same old questions.

418
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:56,280
- Monty.

419
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,720
- I think a little bit, we have also talked about the business logic,

420
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,240
especially in this time.

421
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,760
Where should the business logic live?

422
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:16,040
How can we handle the business logic for these times?

423
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,600
- Yeah, that's a very good question.

424
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:25,880
So in a traditional approach, some people might not like the choice

425
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,040
of word, but you have the classical

426
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,040
or you can call it traditional way,

427
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,800
where you start from scratch on application

428
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,400
or a software solution.

429
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:41,840
You would normally try to complete the separate business side

430
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,280
of the things from the technical side of things

431
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,320
because they change differently.

432
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,760
Their lifespan is different than the rest of your solution.

433
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,720
So I'm talking about, for example,

434
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,520
you have the cross cutting concerns like security,

435
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,560
scalability and so on.

436
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,400
And then you have like the specific business areas

437
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,360
of your application like the, it could be domains,

438
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:09,080
for example, and within those domains,

439
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,800
you have business pieces that you would try to separate them.

440
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,200
But when you are building in a platform,

441
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,480
like for example, an empower platform,

442
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,200
the first thing you need to respect is how that platform

443
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,040
is already architected, right?

444
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,840
You cannot start as if you're starting from scratch.

445
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,200
You should see how the security works.

446
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,720
So your architecture should fit that one.

447
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,600
So the place is that Microsoft sees for your business logic

448
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,280
in multiple layers.

449
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:50,280
So you have the plugins that is basically the native place

450
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,040
for your business, logic.

451
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,200
And if it's a process oriented,

452
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,520
you have the power automate or cloud flows.

453
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:05,360
So you have these normally two major areas,

454
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:10,360
the plugins and business process flows,

455
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:13,560
probably a little bit different,

456
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,760
so I will not bring that to the picture.

457
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,200
You have the plugins and power,

458
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,920
but some parts of your business logic

459
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,240
would always leak to other layers

460
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:28,160
because of an end user experience thing.

461
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,240
For example, you have rules that might say,

462
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,800
okay, this number should be between x and y

463
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,880
or if, for example, another number is between something else,

464
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:43,960
that would live in your plugin, somewhere in the back end.

465
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:49,000
But you would still want that to be on your presentation layer.

466
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:56,000
Why? Because it's easier to stop the end user entering a wrong number

467
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,400
than to allow him to enter it and later on,

468
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,480
show him a pop-up that complains about it.

469
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,480
So for several reasons, like for enhancing the user experience,

470
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,880
that business logic might leak up to other layers,

471
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,480
but the primary area that it lives in is in the back end,

472
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,720
if you're asking the discussion more specifically

473
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,840
about Power Platform in your plugins and Power Automate.

474
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,560
- Yeah, and I think,

475
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,920
topic, zero topic, I think,

476
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,240
let's talk about the code first.

477
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,920
It was that actually mean and how would this Power Platform

478
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,080
and especially how clean code

479
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,040
into the code from AI?

480
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,000
- Yeah, yeah.

481
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:55,000
So, in the past, which is not long ago,

482
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:00,600
you had this divide between Pro Code and Low Code.

483
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,720
So, most of the people called it now, Code and Low Code.

484
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:10,560
But now it's more about that fusion model.

485
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,880
So there is no divide anymore.

486
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,760
So it's more about a platform where code and low code

487
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:23,840
and AI can basically contribute to one another.

488
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,760
So they are basically reinforcing one another.

489
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:33,320
So you have the low code, which is basically designed

490
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,320
based on the pieces are built using Pro Code developer.

491
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,400
A Pro Code sits there and creates those components

492
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,120
like Lego pieces that you put them together and build enough.

493
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:52,000
AI is actually another contributor within that fusion team.

494
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,080
So I see it more like that, but what happened with AI is that

495
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:03,080
code is becoming easier to produce, right?

496
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,920
And you can produce a lot more code, a lot faster.

497
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,040
So it's now more about reviewing the code

498
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,000
and understanding the code faster, right?

499
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,440
And we are sometimes losing that oversight.

500
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,440
So I see more and more that people, I mean, you don't even,

501
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,480
you know, you're trusting it more, you allow it to produce more.

502
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,200
And now you have, you're entering another area

503
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,760
where basically you have multiple agents running in parallel

504
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,440
in Luke generating the code.

505
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,160
So you have to basically review a lot of code.

506
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,480
You have to make sure you're not introducing security issues

507
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,960
and you know, you're not going against best practices.

508
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,080
Like the hard problems are still hard.

509
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:57,240
Like race conditions that can be only happening in

510
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:02,080
the scenarios that you have a lot of load on your systems.

511
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:06,160
Exactly the moment that it's too late to catch them.

512
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:11,160
So you still have those problems, but you know, with AI,

513
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,240
producing the code itself is becoming easier for everyone.

514
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,360
So you can see like the makers in pairing that area,

515
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,440
the same way that developers are also entering

516
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,200
the architecture area more and more.

517
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,080
It's becoming more shared responsibility than before.

518
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,080
But I'm not expecting everybody to become interested

519
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,120
in, you know, the entire business of building software.

520
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,680
So that gives more responsibility to people like architects

521
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,080
and the products to have better oversight, to be better

522
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,800
to review those produced codes.

523
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,240
But the tooling also coming to help, you know,

524
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,760
every day I see more and more tooling coming to help us

525
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,840
go through a lot of code, a lot faster as well.

526
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,600
Again, AI is helping there too.

527
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:10,080
And I think we have also topics we have developed

528
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,480
how we have think about it's, I say the first one

529
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,760
is what I think is this versioning,

530
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,680
how have this just changed?

531
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:25,160
Yeah, but the thing is you have AI, I think,

532
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,440
in two areas, I mean, coming from our perspective.

533
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,440
So you have the AI that is basically for the bin there,

534
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,520
let's call it, that is the kind of AI

535
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,640
that you are using to create the app using natural language

536
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,440
descriptions or generate or explain a power fix formula

537
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,520
or creating like a power ultimate flow conversationally.

538
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,920
Or for example, suggesting user interface,

539
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,800
helping developers understand the data model, for example, right?

540
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,720
So power apps, co-pilot, for example, can generate an app

541
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,160
and its data model from the description

542
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,080
of the business require.

543
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,400
What power ultimate co-pilot allows a maker

544
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,320
to describe a workflow through natural language

545
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,000
and then these experiences are intended

546
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,880
to reduce the distance between the idea

547
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,200
and that working, let's say, working first version.

548
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,480
So the goal is not necessarily to produce

549
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,600
a perfect production system from a single product, right?

550
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:30,880
But to see the value there.

551
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,360
Then you have, in this area, so without AI,

552
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,080
the developer or the maker begins with a blank sheet

553
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,800
but with the idea begin with a draft, which is better.

554
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,360
Then you have the AI that is inside your solution,

555
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,920
which is a second category.

556
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,680
So the example is like, for example, summarizing a customer record

557
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,920
or extracting information from a document

558
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,000
or classifying an email, I don't know,

559
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,880
or commenting the next action or monitoring an event

560
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,040
and producing actions after it.

561
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,000
So this is a different area.

562
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,320
Like a user, for example, expecting to do things like,

563
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,680
okay, summarize this current state of the customer

564
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,440
or show me the open cases that requires escalation

565
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,000
or prepare like a response that I want to send

566
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,360
about this account information.

567
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,680
I have to explain why this application was rejected, you know?

568
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,000
Things like that.

569
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,000
But these are two different AI's that we are dealing with,

570
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,080
which is totally different.

571
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,040
You should not mix them.

572
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:44,040
Each has its own problems and tooling and everything else, right?

573
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:52,040
- And what roles do the ICD pipelines play in improvement

574
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,840
or improve our platform projects?

575
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,800
- Right.

576
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,800
If you see more and more with the platform itself,

577
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:07,680
we are coming closer within the shared platform.

578
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,560
Like you have now the pipelines within power platform

579
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,840
that makers can also use.

580
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,840
So I am hoping at some point, everything comes to Git,

581
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:25,160
basically, so everybody only uses Git as a backend

582
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:30,160
because what I have learned is that you cannot,

583
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,720
you know, meet developers halfway to meet developers

584
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,040
exactly where they are.

585
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,040
So a lot of tools fail because they didn't realize this.

586
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,400
So we have to bring everything to Git.

587
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,920
But we should make it so easy for the makers to work with it.

588
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,080
I see a lot of activities happening in power platform for that.

589
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,080
You can now integrate it with Git, but there are limitations.

590
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:59,080
But it's the fact that everybody is recognizing,

591
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,600
okay, we need CI/CD for everybody,

592
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,280
the LM concept is the same.

593
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,480
It's just a user interface that needs to be suitable

594
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,640
for this target audience.

595
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,400
And you still need to be able to develop,

596
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,000
test maybe within a sandbox environment, whatever,

597
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,960
build and ship it to the environment that the end user is using it.

598
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,800
It doesn't matter if you are a pro dev or a simple maker,

599
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,800
well, it's just the same thing, the same concepts apply.

600
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:40,680
You need reliability and productivity to be able to ship fast

601
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,160
and with peace of mind.

602
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,720
So if you are in a situation,

603
00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:49,400
when everybody is scared of pressing the release button,

604
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:52,440
you have a problem within your LM.

605
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,840
So everybody should be able to happily press that button

606
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,640
because they have the confidence, okay, at this,

607
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,080
we have done it before and it always works.

608
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,160
There is no reason to worry and we have tested it.

609
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,320
You don't have that confidence,

610
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,000
there is room for improvement in your LM process.

611
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,840
- Yeah, I don't like it.

612
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,320
I'm more dev-optic guy.

613
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,320
But yeah, yeah, okay.

614
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,320
The developer house,

615
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,320
yeah, they have front-assetting against me

616
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,160
and we have a good integration.

617
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,120
- We can process sometimes, I see, for example,

618
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,080
you have too much segregation of responsibility

619
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,080
that might be that the guy that presses that button

620
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,920
doesn't even know the responsibility behind me.

621
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,840
So he presses the button,

622
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,280
but things get growing after and it's the developer

623
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,920
who will be called, right?

624
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,160
- You don't want to be in that situation.

625
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,000
- Yeah.

626
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,560
- What would you say,

627
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,400
what should always be stored in the source control?

628
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,560
- Well, the source control should be the source of truth.

629
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,560
So I have seen over years that

630
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,400
Bore platform has come a long way, right?

631
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:23,400
We have gone from the time that nothing was in the source control

632
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:29,080
to the area that, okay, we realized that,

633
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:30,960
okay, things should be in the source control

634
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,560
because of the traceability.

635
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,000
But now we have fully realized that Bore platform

636
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,680
is not an exception.

637
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,480
So just for the same reasons that every other technology

638
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,360
needs a virgin control,

639
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,640
not just for traceability,

640
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,120
for many other things,

641
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,640
powerful platforms should also use Git as the source of truth

642
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:56,480
for everything.

643
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,040
So the things that are built and designed,

644
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,800
they should go to Git.

645
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:02,640
- Go.

646
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,640
- But you normally take that source code

647
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,440
or metadata and configuration and you build something, right?

648
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,200
That build is supposed to be repeatable.

649
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,200
So if you, for example, you have the build server

650
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,120
or the build process,

651
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,280
if you feed in the same source,

652
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,600
it should give you back the same binaries

653
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,760
that you can deploy, right?

654
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,680
But those binaries should not end up in your Git

655
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,200
because a moment you have two places that things leave

656
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:40,200
like in your artifactory or in whatever area that you store

657
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,160
and ship the binaries to the end user.

658
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,040
If you have that same binaries in the source control,

659
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,920
that's not good because then you have the question of,

660
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,720
which one is the latest?

661
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:59,720
Or which one is pointing to this virgin in the source control?

662
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:04,040
So we always try to, when we build the CI/CD,

663
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,840
pipeline or the ALM, a gear picture,

664
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,920
we always try to make sure

665
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,600
what is buildable should not end up in Git.

666
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,280
Like for example, in Power Platform,

667
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,040
we have the DLLs of the plugins, the assemblies,

668
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,120
or we have the new Git packages

669
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,160
or we have these JavaScripts or PCF components.

670
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,480
So these things that are built, build is the output.

671
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,200
They should not end up in the repository

672
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,240
because the traditional way to look at Git for Power Platform,

673
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:38,360
the developers was like,

674
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,080
okay, this is just for traceability

675
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,640
so we can go back and see the code.

676
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,800
No, you should be able to take the Git repository

677
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,240
and using only that, be able to spin up quickly

678
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:54,880
an environment and deploy everything

679
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,320
and have a development environment very quickly.

680
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,200
So it's not the idea to have just the history in there.

681
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:04,680
Everything becomes traceable,

682
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,120
you should be able to go back and roll back

683
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,320
to your changes, correct things,

684
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,880
you should be able to reason why something has changed.

685
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,560
So that means that even things that are coming

686
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,360
from your Power Platform environment,

687
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,240
you create a form, great view,

688
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:27,720
then you should take that view and form whatever you build,

689
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:30,560
push it to Git and describe what you did.

690
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,000
So it means that 10 years from now,

691
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,920
but 10 years is a long time, maybe two years from now,

692
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,920
you should be able to come back to that project

693
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:40,960
and but just looking at your Git,

694
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,560
be able to know what happened in these two years

695
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,800
that you were not around, right?

696
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,840
And then with confidence,

697
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,560
you should be able to create a development environment

698
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,640
and simply your Git to spin it up.

699
00:39:53,640 --> 00:40:00,840
- I think for other guys,

700
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,640
we have this infrastructure as a code topic,

701
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,120
PowerShell, and the graphic,

702
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:10,120
and so on, is that a similar idea for the Power Platform?

703
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,760
- Yes, yes.

704
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,040
Oh, you have provided for a Terraform,

705
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,480
normally the most popular one,

706
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,360
'cause there are different options.

707
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,200
- My sub-sign.

708
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,360
(laughing)

709
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:32,200
- I haven't seen in big enterprises where like the ones

710
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,920
that have several technologies because this Terraform,

711
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,400
for example, is more open, supports more technologies

712
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,760
like it can go from Azure to AWS to Google,

713
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,720
and now in Power Platform.

714
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:46,600
The problem is that,

715
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,600
well, it's open source, right?

716
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,880
But it doesn't cover everything.

717
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,800
So if you see something missing,

718
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,760
you are welcome to contribute to that.

719
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:02,240
And it's always nice to have more contributors,

720
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:05,600
one of the problems is that Power Platform itself

721
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:06,440
is moving fast.

722
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,480
So you have DLPs.

723
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,120
For example, now you have an easier way,

724
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,040
but that easier way needs API behind it.

725
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,000
So it needs to become accessible to Power Platform API.

726
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,000
Then we can have it in the Terraform provider one day,

727
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,560
it doesn't cover everything now,

728
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,840
but it's the nature of the business.

729
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:37,160
So it moves fast, takes time to get there as well.

730
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:42,160
I like this idea of having a way of just defining

731
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:47,200
the environment to be, and it becomes like that,

732
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,680
rather than writing the description of what to do

733
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,160
in PowerShell Scripts to build that environment.

734
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:57,880
But it's not that difficult.

735
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:02,880
For now, because Power Platform is not like Azure either,

736
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,280
in Azure you have to do a lot more than Power Platform.

737
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,160
Power Platform building the environment

738
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,080
or configuring it is not that difficult.

739
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,400
You have the environment groups now, that makes it easier.

740
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,520
And you have this blueprints that you can apply,

741
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,880
and there is more than before,

742
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,360
and it's easier to manage now.

743
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,080
But Terraform is always welcome,

744
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,800
because in a big solution,

745
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,440
you most likely have a lot of Azure components as well.

746
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,280
You have Event Home, you have Azure Service Boss,

747
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,000
you have Functions that and other pieces.

748
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,240
So having Terraform also for your Power Platform

749
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:47,760
would make it more coherent and easier for the Devob Go is

750
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,600
who are used to your Terraform approach

751
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,760
to also deal with Power Platform.

752
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,200
But it's not far from that.

753
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,800
You have, I don't know if you are familiar with the CDS approach,

754
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,000
which is basically,

755
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,520
so previously you had the code components,

756
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,560
which were totally isolated from artifacts

757
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,440
that you would build visually in Power Platform,

758
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,640
but they are basically closing the gap.

759
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,960
So all the things that you build in a Power Platform

760
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,760
and the environment can live under a project

761
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,240
that you basically can build.

762
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:29,120
So you just queue a build operation,

763
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,160
and it can produce your Power Platform solution,

764
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,400
which is ready to deploy.

765
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,480
I'm not trying to say, okay, it's perfect,

766
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,920
and you install it and everything is done.

767
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,960
There is still more work to be done after your deployment.

768
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,040
And Terraform is a very good glue

769
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,560
that can fill that gap.

770
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:54,160
- Yeah, that's what was really fantastic,

771
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:59,160
but I also will take the chance to talk about your tools,

772
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,560
or your tools.

773
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,400
You have built XM-Arch rules.

774
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,360
What is it?

775
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,160
What inspired you and what problem are you trying to solve?

776
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:15,960
- All right, it actually started with an experiment.

777
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,960
So I saw the way that we are developing a Power Platform

778
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,320
solutions in the past.

779
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:30,320
And coming from, because I transition from different technologies,

780
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,080
I normally move horizontally.

781
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,920
When I get bored, I start with another technology.

782
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,760
So when I arrived at Power Platform,

783
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:43,760
I was expecting better tooling, let's say.

784
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,320
For example, in SharePoint, you had better tooling,

785
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:52,320
so you would always build everything in Visual Studio.

786
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,120
It was marketed long ago as the integrated development

787
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,800
environment, so it's more than a coding tool, right?

788
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,400
You should have been able to do everything in Visual Studio.

789
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,120
And you could do everything for SharePoint.

790
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,320
But when I arrived there, I thought, okay,

791
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,520
there is a lot of room for improvement.

792
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,440
So there is like an action, I think,

793
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,040
from Microsoft that you can install on Visual Studio.

794
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,680
So there is a lot of problems in it.

795
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,640
It's clear that it's not maintained as much or

796
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,120
Microsoft is not really invested on that one.

797
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,240
When I asked Darab, who is using it,

798
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:33,040
I didn't see any hands going out in any company.

799
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,040
Some people tried it, that disappointed.

800
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,520
It's documented how to use it, but it's not doing a lot.

801
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,240
And then the modern approach for software development

802
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:47,200
is basically defining everything as code.

803
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,680
And we are seeing the benefit a lot more now,

804
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:54,080
by dates with AI, because whatever that could be defined as code,

805
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,000
can be produced with AI as well, right?

806
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,040
But there is a lot of pieces in Power Platform

807
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,400
that couldn't be defined as code.

808
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,720
Like you write a plugin, but you have to go somewhere else

809
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:09,320
to define what your plugin does,

810
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,080
and then it should be activated, and what should be sent

811
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:17,080
to your plugin, so the configuration, the context.

812
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,440
So if you touch your code in your plugin, you have to go back.

813
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:26,680
And for custom APIs, which is a more sophisticated plugin,

814
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,560
you can have all sorts of inputs and outputs.

815
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,880
It gets even more difficult, because on top of that,

816
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,560
you have the input and output of the API,

817
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,120
and God forbid, if it changes, you have to again,

818
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,160
jump back to the tool.

819
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,320
And there is not one tool, but many to work with.

820
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:50,200
That means developer is losing their site, well, you know,

821
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,080
they come out of the Zen that they are developing fast.

822
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:59,680
And after a while, which is basically what is even worse,

823
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,400
they get used to it.

824
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,760
So they just accept it as the nature of the world.

825
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:10,800
But when I came to that area, I noticed there is a gap to be filled.

826
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,280
I didn't want the developers to go outside to define

827
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,840
what could be already visible in the code.

828
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,120
So I saw there were some attempts at doing it,

829
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,080
but you know, bringing these things to Visual Studio,

830
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,400
Visual Studio is very extendable, but it's very difficult to extend it.

831
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,760
And not everything is documented.

832
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,920
So somebody had to bite the bullet and sit down

833
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,400
and learn how to work with Visual Studio,

834
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:38,840
and it was difficult.

835
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:44,080
So I just, I didn't make any promises to anybody, not even to myself.

836
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,680
I said, OK, let's try it.

837
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,520
Could be a fun site project.

838
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,720
That fun project took a year.

839
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:53,480
I think I spent more than 1,000 hours.

840
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:54,760
Virgin.

841
00:47:54,760 --> 00:48:01,040
So I was even at that time to be, you know, you just put some attributes.

842
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,600
This is the way that every C# developer works in the world.

843
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,280
You add attribute to your plugin.

844
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:09,120
Why?

845
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,400
Because that's directly related to the code that you're writing,

846
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,880
but it's about the code that you're writing.

847
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:14,880
What is the place?

848
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,880
If you ask any C# developer, they will answer C# attributes.

849
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,800
It even exists in other languages, like Go and many other languages,

850
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,360
Java, for example.

851
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,520
So there was no question.

852
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:27,520
That's the right place.

853
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,800
So you can now be the external tools.

854
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,800
You just add some attributes.

855
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,760
It's a like, this is the step.

856
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,760
This is the image.

857
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,600
And then you just right click on your project and register.

858
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:45,680
But think is some magic happened at that moment.

859
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,440
Because the moment you put that in your code,

860
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:55,560
that becomes, first of all, a single source of truth in reality,

861
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,920
not in marketing in the moon.

862
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,600
You define your API input and output.

863
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,240
You define the registration of plugin right beside the business

864
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:07,040
logic there in a clean way.

865
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,080
And now not only visual studio can understand

866
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:15,440
what it needs to do to register your plugin in a single click.

867
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:20,280
And also maybe another advantage is that the entire thing

868
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:21,360
is a transaction.

869
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:26,440
So if it faves in any moment, it will road back the entire thing.

870
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,480
It doesn't happen in any other tool.

871
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,560
But then I noticed, wow, the analyzers,

872
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,560
you might be familiar with them in that then.

873
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,280
And code fixtures, they also see it.

874
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,960
So they can complain if you are doing something wrong.

875
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,680
And as your intention becomes clear to visual studio,

876
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,080
it can do a lot more.

877
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,040
So it knows, for example, in your plugin,

878
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,920
you have a dependency on which table and which columns.

879
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,840
So you have a type safe target.

880
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,160
There is no way you can make a human error even if you try.

881
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,480
So your code will not compile anymore.

882
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,840
So it becomes a lot safer.

883
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,720
It becomes a lot faster.

884
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:10,760
Or like common problems, for example, you're not allowed

885
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,240
to use state within your plugin.

886
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:13,760
Why?

887
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,800
Because the plugin can run again and again.

888
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,360
And the context will be different each time.

889
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,680
It can be a different user with a different permission

890
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:23,280
learning event.

891
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,640
So it's even dangerous to keep things in your properties

892
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,520
of your class, which is your state, but not with external tools.

893
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,240
Because we have dependency injections.

894
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:34,680
So it brings all these concepts that

895
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,080
existed outside of our platform for everybody else.

896
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,720
Now we need power platform.

897
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:41,080
Your bit becomes safe.

898
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,320
You just right click and register.

899
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,920
It takes care of the build if it's required.

900
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,480
Then I bring all these things that are in power platform

901
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,120
as native services.

902
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:57,560
You can just open a new fetch file and write a query.

903
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,360
And it compiles and generates code for you.

904
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:05,080
So whenever I see opportunity that this is a code that is always

905
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,040
looking the same way, the boring stuff, XRM tools

906
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,360
should take care of it.

907
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,160
But there is a lot more coming to it.

908
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,160
I talked about CDS project.

909
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:19,640
Like CDS project is nice project model.

910
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,720
But you cannot even open it in Visual Studio.

911
00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:28,200
But I'm not going to tell you a lot more than that.

912
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,400
But there is a lot of stuff coming to XRM tools that

913
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:37,880
makes it also a first class citizen in Visual Studio very soon.

914
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:38,840
Yeah.

915
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:43,320
You have spent 1,000 hours on work.

916
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:44,800
Can you have me be?

917
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,600
And now for the next year, you have a newer product, the PS

918
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,360
data worse.

919
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,920
That's a power shell to the data worse.

920
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,800
So can you a little bit tell us about this?

921
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,240
Different tools with different goals.

922
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:06,000
So for XRM tools, because it's built for Visual Studio

923
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,280
and for the developer target audience, the expectation

924
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,120
of the quality is extremely high.

925
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:19,120
For example, in XRM tools, there is no simple way to--

926
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,560
for example, you might look at Visual Studio and say,

927
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,000
OK, everything should have the same theme.

928
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,880
If it's dark, everything should be dark.

929
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,680
But when you create an extension for Visual Studio,

930
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,920
it looks like Windows 95.

931
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,400
It takes the default colors of--

932
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,080
and you have to do a lot of work just

933
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,080
to bring the theme of the Visual Studio to your extension.

934
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,720
And every single piece is important for me

935
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:46,720
because I don't have a release date that is announced to anybody.

936
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:50,880
I take a lot of time to make all these little corners

937
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,400
perfect before I release.

938
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,120
The PSDTWR is a different word.

939
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:59,720
So that's basically there.

940
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:04,800
You can use PowerShell to create a record or two in Power Platform.

941
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,800
But nobody is using that for data migration.

942
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:08,040
Why?

943
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:12,880
Because you might need to move massive amounts of data

944
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,800
in and out of Power Platform.

945
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,800
PSDTWR is for that purpose.

946
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,040
So you basically generate a JSON, which is extremely

947
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,880
easy in PowerShell, probably with one line of code now.

948
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:34,120
You can connect to any data source, be it Postgres,QL,

949
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,520
or SQL Server, or a KEL whatever.

950
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:38,840
It's always not more than a line of code.

951
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,160
And probably one more line of code

952
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,120
to read massive amounts of data.

953
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,760
There is always a module for that.

954
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,160
It doesn't matter which data source.

955
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,560
Then the problem is here.

956
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,800
How are you going to move that massive data

957
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,000
into Power Platform reliably?

958
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,240
So PSDTWR fixes that missing piece.

959
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:05,840
So you are able to load large amounts of data,

960
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:10,840
give it to PSDTWR and point at the table to move that data.

961
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:15,120
So with that in place, you can do a lot of magic, basically.

962
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,760
It takes care of connecting to your Power Platform

963
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:24,240
securely, creating parallel pipelines to your Power Platform

964
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:29,160
and send massive amounts of data in transactions.

965
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:33,720
So it's actually matching them and running them in parallel.

966
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:36,640
And because the runtime is very light,

967
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:41,120
you are not within a SIS, which is itself very large.

968
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,960
And because it's code-based, you can run it anywhere,

969
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:49,200
a code can run in the cloud, hosted or within a VM

970
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:55,480
or from an unprem-service or a VM.

971
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,760
You can just move that amount of data

972
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,760
to the target environment.

973
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:05,800
I have samples written there that shows you

974
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,120
like real production scenarios.

975
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:12,440
What happens, for example, if in the middle of the data migration

976
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,840
for some reason network outage, everything is stocks.

977
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:17,120
You should be able to receive them.

978
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:18,800
You don't want to start from scratch.

979
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,320
So it addresses all those common problems

980
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:27,600
and we use it in different teams to do huge data migrations,

981
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,480
to spin up environments, feed pre-existing data.

982
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,920
If it's like 20 records, it's very easy.

983
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,400
You can do it manually or with an extension.

984
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,720
But what if you need like 10,000 records in 50 different tables

985
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:43,360
with dependencies on each other, right?

986
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,400
With the UI, it will be a nightmare.

987
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,320
But if you can convert it to JSON,

988
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:52,680
poor PSD-towers can move it to Power Platform.

989
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,960
And vice versa, you can move it outside of Power Platform

990
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,280
in JSON format and storage somewhere.

991
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,640
So you might be immediately thinking about,

992
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,360
wow, we can transfer data between environments reliably.

993
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,800
Because before you had the data flows,

994
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:11,000
it's going to become obsolete soon.

995
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,000
And they are not able to move reliably data more than 10,000.

996
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,480
And maybe with some tricks, which I have also shared

997
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,840
in some blog posts in the past,

998
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,560
you can go up to 100,000 records.

999
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:28,200
But more than that's probably not possible in a normal way.

1000
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,680
But with PSD-towers, you can have millions of records

1001
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,840
in different tables and reliably moving them

1002
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,200
to the cloud or back.

1003
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:38,280
Yeah, awesome.

1004
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:39,320
Thank you.

1005
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,120
Yeah, we are a little bit running out of time.

1006
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,280
So let's jump in the ref at FireRun.

1007
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,680
That's, I make a short question and you give us a short answer.

1008
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,400
Oh, I know who.

1009
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,040
Dotnet Java, C# or PowerShell.

1010
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,040
Ah, maybe Dotnet.

1011
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:02,960
Visual Studio or VS Code?

1012
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,840
Wow, that's a different tool for a different job.

1013
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,960
But yeah, I would say Visual Studio.

1014
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,600
Rest or graph QL?

1015
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:14,120
Ah, nice one.

1016
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,040
Graph QL.

1017
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,640
Can myself some model driven X?

1018
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,080
Modern driven X.

1019
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:26,680
Power on automated or Azure functions?

1020
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,600
Azure functions?

1021
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:34,160
To encode or fastcode?

1022
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:35,720
To encode.

1023
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,840
General or agree?

1024
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,760
Ah, that's a very difficult one.

1025
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,880
agree.

1026
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,640
Text or spaces?

1027
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,160
Spaces?

1028
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,440
That would or light mode.

1029
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,320
Dark mode, certainly.

1030
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,440
The first back you ever fixed?

1031
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,160
The first back I ever fixed.

1032
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,000
Oh my god, that's difficult one.

1033
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,880
I don't really remember that.

1034
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:08,800
OK, when Microsoft can, you get all the money and resources

1035
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,200
you need.

1036
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,680
What feature ability build?

1037
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,880
In Power Platform, you mean?

1038
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:20,120
Yeah, you're free in the Microsoft ecosystem.

1039
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,560
You know, one of my favorite technologies

1040
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:29,840
within Microsoft's large ecosystem is Azure functions.

1041
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,880
Because I cannot imagine in any of the other Microsoft products,

1042
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:40,840
you don't need a simple to build compute runtime, where

1043
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:46,240
you can write code and run it easily and ship it easily

1044
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,480
or easier than Azure functions.

1045
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,960
I would have liked to see Azure functions everywhere.

1046
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,640
So within Power Platform, not outside.

1047
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,120
So you could write plugins and deploy them.

1048
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,240
But if you look at Azure functions, you have triggers.

1049
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,040
They could be your plugin engine.

1050
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:05,960
They could be your API engine.

1051
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,200
They could run within SharePoint.

1052
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:13,240
They could run within every technology

1053
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:15,440
in Microsoft ecosystems everywhere.

1054
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,680
Then that would have made it easier for everybody to learn

1055
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,640
because you would learn just Azure functions

1056
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:23,320
and you are able to develop for every technology in Microsoft

1057
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:24,320
ecosystem.

1058
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,800
And for Microsoft, it would be easy because you would just

1059
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,920
connect Azure functions to AI, where

1060
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,840
now you are going to connect all these different technologies

1061
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:35,960
to AI.

1062
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:37,400
Yeah.

1063
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:41,320
Then my last question, favorite keyboard, short cut.

1064
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:48,360
There is a lot of there.

1065
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:53,040
Or maybe a five for the developers.

1066
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:54,520
Yeah.

1067
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,680
Hita, thank you so much for joining me today.

1068
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:00,480
I really enjoyed this conversation because we

1069
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,320
went beyond the usual Power Platform discussions

1070
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,600
and enjoyed how modern engineering

1071
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:09,320
development productivity, AI solutions are coming together.

1072
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,080
It's really, really cool.

1073
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:16,400
So I hope we can do another session

1074
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,120
because I have so much more questions, especially

1075
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,440
to the governance stuff.

1076
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,760
We're a little bit short figure.

1077
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:26,760
Yeah.

1078
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,240
And yeah, thank you so much for being here.

1079
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:30,400
Thanks for having me.

1080
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:31,400
I really enjoyed it, too.

1081
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:38,400
.