From Figma design to the PowerApps with Lukas Pavelka [MVP]

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Yeah, hello again. This is another episode of the M65 podcast. My guest today is Luca

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Paweka. Luca's Paweka. He is Microsoft MVP and I think he is also a serial enchantner.

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We can say this is a lot of nice tools we will speak about today. And yeah, look

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as before we start, how did you come into the, how did you develop all these nice ideas?

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Well, yeah, so when I started 20 years ago, you know, I was only Java developer, I think

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special. But when my wife showed, showed me the Figma and beautiful world in design, I

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start thinking how I can prepare some easy development steps for power apps people because

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I started to use power apps power up in my, in my official way of working. So so therefore

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I said, okay, it's not fine for me to recognize only three colors, but there are a lot of

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colors there. So so therefore I started to prepare my plugin and then in meantime, yeah, because

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AI is currently the topic which is discussing everybody and around the world. So therefore

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I started to prepare also some features for for AI. Awesome. And you have that so many tools,

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you have this Figma tools and you have also an admin tool for telegram. Can you tell us

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a little bit about your about your tools? Yeah, so related to the plugin, I've created

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like two plugins one for the power apps, which is called power as for Figma, one which is currently

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officially in production from yesterday power BI for Figma, where my plan is to help power

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BI people. This plugin is completely free and you can put your data flows from power BI

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and visualize it in Figma and back to the power BI. The second tool called by both admin is

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related because my wife started to make some online course for the trainings for Pilates.

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So therefore I started to think we can create some tool which helps you make bots for telegram

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without any coding, without any code experience very easily for online makers.

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That sounds interesting. And you build them all yourself or you have a company?

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You know most of them I started by myself but when I found the Coupi lot and other things

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with AI agents then of course they helped me a lot with some coding but I would say the

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5-by coding is for now is typical for every developer. Yeah, that's really interesting. And

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when I heard last Figma getting really big by the Shopee acquired by Adobe and then they say

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okay when you go buy us you have to give us one billion dollars.

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Yeah, I would say it was a trick, it was a trick to how to make money but you know we will

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never know what happened really with lawyers and between the Adobe and Figma but yeah.

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So when I started to from from last and quarter of last year they really started to create

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a lot of great tools and now Figma is ecosystem. So you can create presentation, you can create

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all applications like Vipe Apps in Power Apps. So yeah, there are a lot of possibilities and

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that's not all of these started to prepare more for designers, coders and general companies

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related to vectors with the graphics and the everything in one place.

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Yeah, I think it's an awesome tool, it's really great and I think they have a big future and

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for all the people they don't like the Adobe style of, I don't know, of contracts. So the

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people are getting a better deal I think on Figma. Also and then your tools are all the

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most powerful platform tools, I think that Power BI, I don't know why Power BI is into the

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Power Platform but it goes and you both have a free version and then the premium version

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for it. Yeah, in Power in Power Apps for Figma, I have two versions, the one is free where

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are like 40% or for free of the features and yeah, there is monthly and clear costs for

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Power Apps because you know, I spent four years of developing of this stuff and it helps

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a lot to save the time and money for users of Canvas applications.

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But for the Power BI, it's the first official version so I do not plan to make it any payment

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for that one because it's like my present for the community of Power BI that I was nominated

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as MVP. So therefore, I hope so that people will give me some replies and feedback about

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this tool, how they can help this plugin. So then I make it off official so we share the

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link in the show notes and so the people especially Power BI guys, show download it and test it

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and give you feedback so that's really really nice. What is the difference between the

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Power Figma or Power Platform from free to premium or what I get there?

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Yeah, in a free version they can import from the Power Apps designs or snippets, they

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can create some layouts and Figma, they can also export the E3 demo but the difference is

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that in a pro version they can really copy paste to keyboard all selected frames from Figma

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or controls. In a pro version they can use icons from the flow end 8 and 9, they can use

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some external or extended properties for the copy paste thing and for the creation in

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control 5 in Figma plus they can resize their styles and create a translation to like more

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than 100 languages. Oh, that is awesome. I think they can use save a lot of time when you

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have a big company with, yeah, I think multi-language and it's often really complicated.

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I read a study that's the cost of not good making translation cost, the company's 1.3 billion

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dollars per month so that's a really, really high part of cost so I think they can save a

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lot of money when they have this function and when you build an app then you have a look

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as you have, I think you cut a lot from ready-made, I think, Canvas like styles can be also--

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And from last versions I've prepared also the possibility to create as a component and

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in Figma you can create a library where can be shared through different files and in the

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styles you can create the instances of the components so therefore my plugin supports

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this components also instances and you can create from selected control designed in Figma

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easily through one click as a component and you can create a variance because to the different

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variance it means the in Figma work that you can see like the differences like re-designed

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by different colors or content of the control can be completely different. So therefore this

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is the last functionality which you can specify the whole design system in Figma and then

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just if you follow the prefixes which represents the controls in PowerUp then you can create

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the whole design system and easily export it to PowerUp for different projects around

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across your projects in the company.

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Yeah, that's great and the people have found it on the myCondis site or on the--

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I have created a new website with a new link where it's called PowerLuggingStudio.com where

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you can find information and documentation our discord community about the PowerUp and

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plus I started the documentation for Power BI.

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And then you have thought you also have I think a little bit changed from model development

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to vibe coding. Can you tell a lot of people say, "Oh, vibe coding doesn't work for-- it's

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not safe" and so on. I want to see your experience of vibe coding.

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Yeah, yeah. From the last month I've started deeply use this vibe coding and the different

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projects and I would say if you want to have some helper which can just find where can

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be the issue in your code but I'm not telling about the hidden problems in the code because

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time to time, you know, when you click it's visible but in some special cases it's not visible

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and you're just thinking where is the issue in the code.

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So if you are just using for the standard questions or prompts for this code pilot and other

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AI agents then it will help you a lot because for example what currently I did is I pre-part

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through nine icons and the code to have it in plugin and I just copy paste the naming of

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the icons and the copilot helped me to put in correct shape in the code and just finish

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the sentence in what I needed for this blue and nine.

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So if you just use the standard prompts and prompts must be really strict you want to use

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only one thing what you want to improve in the code or finish the coding because if you

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use multiple then the AI agents will just rewrite your code and what was functional now

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it's not working.

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So therefore you have to be really strict and you have to use only one thing what you want

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to finish or update your code.

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So it helps to have a developer background also use a vibe coding or think everyone can

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use it.

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Yeah but the main thing is that you really need to understand your code because when you

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start using the only the vibe coding then you have to know later if something will be

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wrong to understand what is written there.

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So you need to re-appear it because time to time you just have to update the code and

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put the correct one because copilot or an other AI agent will not help you because

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does not know that all information what you want to have in your head.

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How did you work with versioning in vibe coding?

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One thing I can just connect it to GitHub and every code what I'm just changed through

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the vibe code is in a history so I can easily return back or if you just use some prompts

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and you are not happy what happened you can click on undo and everything will be returned

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back.

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But the deep facing with the versioning I still not using because I need to have power

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of all code what I did because it is really important for years of developing is a lot

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of code.

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Yeah I think so.

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It sounds a lot of lines here.

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When we think about all the cool stuff we have also we went to MCP model context protocol

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and vibe coding and what did you think where we will be going in the next month's years?

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I don't know.

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Days it's so fast.

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Yeah it's very fast because yesterday was late and every day I'm learning a lot and

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when I learned one week before they are sharing it's old version.

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So therefore yeah I would say as you saw every application currently is creating MCP

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servers where are the get and post some questions what we currently using from postman or other

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two or close.

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So I would say this is the strategy of our company they will have the own MCP servers to

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connect to to cloud, copy a lot or another a engines which will help to return the language

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what they were requested.

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So I would say this is the now the defense staff what they will start to do.

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I see also Microsoft yeah they have started with their own models based for co-pilot based

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on open AI technology and now they're getting more more open to other like cloud and traffic

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and so I think this is really really cool in that.

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I also already people say yeah some models are better for I don't know.

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For cloud is better for development the tool is better for front end and so on and how

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get you an overview when you use what.

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A couple of days ago I just tried to investigate which model is used for my questioning in prompt

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and I found in a visual studio that you can have auto like autopilot or you can choose

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your specific model which is saying like in a visual studio that it's when you use auto

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it's 10% cheaper than when you use your particular model.

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So therefore this is what everybody in this planet will try to solve it how much money

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they need to spend for the prompt because the tokens as you just read it 10,000 tokens

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for only one prompt.

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It's crazy and in cloud is not every it's like not for free so if you need the cloud code

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then of course you need to put the budget for money.

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So therefore this is currently a lot of questions and videos what I saw on YouTube that how do

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I save this money and if I can compare visual studio or film a make which I'm using for

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developing the code then it depends when you use for example this Figma make it's really

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great to use cloth because the cloth just give you the one style of the design.

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In your code it's also great to check if you want to have like deep knowledge or deep

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thinking what the agent should develop for you or if you need only like you know weeper

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this type of in your code or something that it's really great to to check the particular

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model but if you want to also include some images for a agent that where could be the problem

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then of course it's better to use models which can allow you to put some images but it's

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completely different story what exactly you want to need as the output.

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I updated a long time ago I think four years the visual studio have they also a co-pilot

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integration now. Yeah yeah yeah I'm using it every day because of course you need to have

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Github Pro version where it's included this co-pilot with some mount limit because if you

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use for free there are like very close you will exhaust your limit and you need to wait

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one month for that one. So therefore yeah this world is only about the money so everything

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is paid not like as you remember we started we had some trial versions or free but now

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is everything is paid. Yeah but I think there it's also I have read for for sometimes and

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they have a power problem they had a lot of electricity at the moment for all this and

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Microsoft had buy a lot of ND cards so from these AI cards they can't install it because

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they have a lot of energy actually in the US because I don't know there are some problems

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with the war and also the infrastructure is not so good and they will they will build their

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own nuclear power plant for supporting the AI but yeah I think it's also it's expensive

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because I think the company must earn some money because I read a Google search request

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it's like a 40 red what yeah like one hour of making the light on and it's 10 hours for

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one request on AI so I think that it's that is it's yeah that's what color code also represents

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that you have peaks it means that if you run your problem during the day or during the night

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it's a completely different taking their your tokens because due to electricity how big

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I'm I use a lot of what chat GPT for my projects and I started what year 012 and there was

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so so limited so how how many tables can you use on Claude and so on yeah whatever I started

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to investigate it's like if you use something small like you know you want to reaper one one

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method or one class then it's like 10 cents or 15 cents but if you want to just apply your

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design for a whole project which I tried yesterday and it costs like one and a half or two dollars

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for for changing of my like 20 20 classes in the code so it's it's completely different and

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of course which model are you using if you use the standard model for the opus or if you use

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the high q or sonnet it comes to the different a number of tokens spent during your asking

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to the clock but I'm still investigating and I found some some tips and tricks so I I need to

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share to a to community how and when to use these models and that's really interesting and we

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found in the future some posts from you on on linkedin about the topic I think yeah and the so the

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the GitHub co-pilot it's like the same you have in visual studio or the same sample okay okay

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when when you think a little bit in the future of your development that you think you can also

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write tests and say okay here my agent can can test my product or it currently is is already

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at least in in cloud because as I mentioned I learning cloud now to be partner of cloud so therefore

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now it's possible to create skills and the skills will help you to learn core cloud about your

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security about your testing and about like visualization and production or different environment

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but you need to learn it so this is like you have like basic skills of all agents and

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yesterday it was Figma release notes and they they they showed some demos what happened

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currently in NCP for for Figma to the cursor so this is the same in the background is cloth

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and they are just saying which skill should be used for your problem and after that

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the your described skill which is not only like name of the skill and description and steps what

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AI agent should do during the building during the running your your problem and that's that's what

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currently AI agents are using yeah I see there I have with Tetsubit here after this memory problem

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when I use it for coding and I think it does with the skills is as cool so you can can yeah you can

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use the the trained skills for especially for for this the topic and I see also

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when you use the the co-pilot for for the normal Microsoft product I don't know you make a

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request only can take up to 300 sources when you use it nothing when you have I don't know

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the code and so on it's it's really could be really hard and yeah so I think the people it's it's

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like also yeah a governance problem I think you have make it's a good structure and then think

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about and then you get a better quality so I think it's it's good to have an development background

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yeah so I read I read a lot of the picks and it's it's it's it's the same what what happened during

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when when clock cloud started so everybody you know didn't know what cloud is and what is inside

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I don't know what about the secret they started to ask when they in they put everything in cloud

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and after that they ask what's the security inside the same here if you do not have an

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background to develop and then you start the vibe coding and for sure hackers will like you because

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you does not need or you will not know what's happening in your code and if there is not

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a lot like possibility to to hack your code so so therefore I would say that every I agent

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has this possibility to learn what inside your code and how to make it secured because you can

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specify the same like in in windows and other operations system who can check and edit or read

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mode for for your files and the same is represented in a agent you have to learn which files could not

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be pushed to get because if would be pushed and somebody just stole to steal your account and get

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then we'll have everything on a plate and but when we think about you know normally I will ask

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what what will you say aspiring developers or when you have to start and you have your start with

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the restart completely new product with the power be I plug in what was the yeah what is the

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what was changed for you or how is it changed to start this kind of projects for development

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for the power be I yeah there's a different than you think the other thing you started for four

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years without all this cool AI stuff and now you have equals start with the power be I plug in

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what skills have you learned on what would you say what I've changed and what can the

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aspiring developers take or or should change for from old learning yeah you know

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when I when I finished my career as a Java leveler I said I will never develop anything anymore

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but when I was part of management so there is like you know it's boring everybody is just

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screaming yeah everything is wrong and everything is coming to production late and I said the

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attitude to put only reporting can just fill the excel files for for for the management that was not

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was not happy I was not happy for for the advanced so therefore I started again the the develop and just

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I started with automation for Microsoft to to to help me to prepare reporting excel files and

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other stuff but I needed to to to my work and I said okay that's not enough because I I found that

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there was existing power apps and I developed Android applications and so it's it's similar and so

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therefore I said okay but how can I help and I improved the the UI of this application because

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the rectangle is it's not enough for me so so therefore I was inspired by another people from

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power apps community where started to make beautiful applications so therefore I said

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maybe I can help them for for for making easy steps to to make enterprise application and yeah the

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first version was really awful and not usable but but now when I'm trying to apply also AI

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in my plugin then will change a little bit the process yeah you access the so nice topic I have found

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I have started using the Microsoft clarity and this is I think I'll say okay like analytics tools like

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Google analytics but or did but this is so cool cool tool so and it's so much free stuff inside for

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for for you UI optimization so I'm I think this is it's a it's a Microsoft product I think

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I don't know why so but it's not more promoted I love this tool it's really really really cool

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and you can also most people think it's on the fore website but you can also integrate it in in

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apps and it's it's really I think it's it's really cool yeah you also can integrate it in in

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SharePoint I think that's most the main idea of of this and yeah I think the the UX is it's uh yeah

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yeah it's it's it's it's so different from uh what I know a lot of pro coders and they make so good

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products enterprise solutions but they look so ugly and no one will use it and

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And last time we had a discussion with about gamification in app.

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So I also like you like this.

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And I think, yeah, it will be really really interesting what's coming next and so on.

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So I think it's a crazy time, when you go and say, okay,

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I like a, I like it app, generated, okay.

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The funny part is I last time I have, I don't know what I think I had a problem with

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with my little podcast here and I had to make it a lot of changes and then I,

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the K here, I'll be made me the code and for me, what's fine because then I ask how

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secure is this and then say, oh, it's since you've been a lot of the users in production.

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And so it's really, really, really cool, but I think, yeah, it's so amazing,

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amazing future.

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When we look at the future, what did you think it's coming up from Microsoft or from

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all these providers?

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Well, I would say that they will, they will for sure use what they prepared like for

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this copilot, copilot, copork that the like dictation to, to, to say to copilot,

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what do you need to prepare like make me invitation for my colleagues and create a task for

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HR and other stuff.

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So I would say that this will, will be the, the next part when or not only writing the

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prompts, which is boring and you need to write again and again.

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So now will be dictated from, from your tools, which just write in the background, what

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you said to the AI agent because yes, they presented Figma the similar, what you, you know,

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from the copilot, that Figma make you can just say what you want to prepare and the Figma

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will help you to, to, to provide the code and create the application.

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What do you, only what you said, not what you written because it's a, during the one

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month, I stayed very old man when I wrote a million prompts again and again to, to different

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AI agents and it's really boring.

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So therefore I decided to prepare a new product about the prompt, which is aren't less

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secret, but I would say that soon will be perfect for everybody.

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We can look at, at, at, at, you know, LinkedIn profile again.

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So it makes that, to see one of the, the stealth product.

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And this is the thing that is so, so many information and it's so cool.

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And what, what, it's, it's your plan for, for your, for your products in the, in the next

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steps.

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Yep.

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The next step, I need to finish AI, AI chat and power apps for Figma where people will

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be possible to create own custom controls and easy to copy to, to power apps or put it

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in the Figma.

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And the next step is finish my bot admin to improve some details about the creating new

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online courses for, for makers.

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And last thing then, yeah, I will start to develop new projects about this prompt and yeah,

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now then will be the marketing part, which will be hard.

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Yeah.

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That is also, yeah, that is, I think, yeah, I am a marketing guy.

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So I see a lot of people have great products, but I cannot bring it to the market because

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yeah, they don't reach the right, the right people.

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And it's, yeah, I'm, so, I think that this was so, so amazing.

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So I think, yeah, I, I give you the, the last words to the audience, the, your, okay, so

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let me just say, at least thank you that you invited me.

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And I believe that the people will hear about my project as soon.

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And I hope that I will, I will help you do the community because this is my reason, but

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I'm here to help the community.

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So I'm, yeah, I put all the links in the show loads.

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And yeah, so thank you, Lucas, for being here and for your time.

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And that's really interesting.

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And I think, yeah, the people to look your, your products and, and your, also, skills in

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invite and coding.

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So, yeah, thank you so much for your time.

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Thank you and happy birthday.

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Thank you.

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[LAUGHS]