Shaping the Future of Work with Fabio Bonolo MVP

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Welcome to another episode of the MC65 podcast.

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Today's guest is Fabio Bonolo, Microsoft MVP in Microsoft 365 corporate category, Team Leader

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Productivity in Red IT SpeedCelent, International Speaker and Passionate Community at Usast,

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helping organizations unlock the true potential of Microsoft 365 and AI.

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Fabio's mission goes beyond technology.

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He believes that the future of work is about empowerment, mindset and helping people,

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confidentially navigate the AI workplace.

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And also, I think he is the best dressed MVP in the world from the male side.

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So welcome Fabio.

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Thanks so much for having me, Mirko.

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I'm really happy to be here.

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Yeah, awesome.

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Fabio, for the people who discover you for the first time, I think that's not so much,

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but who are you behind the MVP title?

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Well, just some Swiss guy that is a little bit crazy.

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So yeah, I have a family with two kids, two sons, six and three years old.

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Yeah, they consume a lot of time, of course, but I really do enjoy it.

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And such, I also am studying right now for my master's degree this year,

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or I just started with my master's semester at my master's thesis in Business and

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IT consulting.

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And I will do when the master's thesis will be accepted, I will do something about the

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Genetic AI for SMEs in Switzerland.

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So a really hot topic at the moment.

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And yeah, I was a former footballer, so I played in high level football until I was 15,

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16 years old.

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I go to fitness for 10s a week, I try to stay in shape.

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And yeah, as an Italian origin, I always look into my fashion and how I dress, so that I

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don't disappoint my Italian fellows.

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So from your story, I was begun.

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What pulled you into the Microsoft ecosystem?

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Yeah, that's an interesting story.

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So before my life in Microsoft, I was a sales executive.

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And I just sell sold everything that there was services, products to private consumers,

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to business consumers as well, be to be.

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And in times of COVID, so in June 2020, I joined I trust, which is also Microsoft partner

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here in Switzerland as a solution sales consultant.

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And yeah, it really quickly became clear that I don't want to just talk about the stuff

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or this topic and sell it.

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I want to have some hands on work because it really gained my interest, it really gained

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my passion also, but this bark really went through when Copilot came in 2023.

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This was like, wow, that's it.

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And I just dived into it.

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I did my first webinars.

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I wrote my first blogs.

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And since then, yeah, can't stop thinking about it and can't imagine the world without it

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anymore.

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If you have described the future of work in one sentence, what would it be?

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Oh, that's a good question.

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Just clicking more understanding and guiding and observing.

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This is cool.

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I think, yeah, I like that.

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And we heard in the last, I don't know, for me, I've been feeling 20 years when I said,

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really correct.

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We have heard a lot of digital time for transformation.

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It's actually changed.

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Thank you in the last 24 miles.

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So when Copilot starts.

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Yeah, well, I think the whole journey, I topic has to be looked into on another scale,

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right?

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We always have had digital transformation.

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Think about the internet, think about office, think about SharePoint, think about industry 4.0.

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So we've always had this kind of innovation cycles.

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But right now, the innovation is going so fast as it has never, never before in my opinion.

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In my opinion, I saw it early on, especially with the upcoming of Copilot Studio and all

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the agents like was two years ago, in my opinion, and that would have been a cool masterpiece,

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but it is too big of a topic.

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We are heading towards the end of the clicking culture, right?

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We are clicking to start processes.

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We are clicking for any task that we have in our daily work, all our websites are built.

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We've dropped down our formulas, our lists, everything.

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And with the upcoming of agents, especially with autonomous agents and AI guiding our workflows,

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I think there will be less clicking.

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That's why I said that in the beginning or at the question you asked me.

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And there will be less clicking.

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And yeah, more observing of agent of Gen AI, doing autonomous work without human interference.

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And this is the, I think, the biggest change that we've had in the last 24 months, these

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kind of autonomous capabilities that is not just, hey, answer this email or generate

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the blog or kick or whatever, but really have direct impact into critical business processes

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with Gen AI.

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Yeah, we have this password.

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I call it modern work and we have it for, I don't know, 10 years or so.

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But is modern work for you or belong the password beside the password?

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I think there are two perspectives, right?

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So the one part is the modern work place, which is all more the technical perspective with

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all the infrastructure, like cloud identities, security and things like that.

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And on the other hand, and this is the world that I live in is the modern workplace at

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the end user.

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So collaboration tools, Gen AI nowadays, how people are changing their way of work at the

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workplace.

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And this is, this for me is the password where I'm living in, so I don't have much idea about

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Entra, Anti-Fender and that, I don't know.

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But in my world, it's always about how you can use collaboration tools more efficiently

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and how you as an end user or as an organization have to change your ways in order to gain these

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kind of efficiency because it's not only the technology, it's the change that drives it.

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I think we have a long time talked about change management and so on.

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And yeah, I don't know if we do it right or wrong, but you think co-pilot or AI or AI, agents

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and all the passwords, we have a change in change management.

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Often it works.

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I think it's the same obstacles that we have during COVID, right, when teams came.

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We are the same optical organization are diving into, yeah, let's buy some license and let's

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do some co-pilot and see how it works, which doesn't foster good use cases, which doesn't

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foster efficiency gains, how we expect that.

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So yawks, obstacles that we have and the challenges that we have, especially as consultants,

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as external consultants is to make sure that change and training and enablement are being

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invested into.

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So I'm working at Red Act here right now and we just published a success story with a customer,

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sport, team, and Germany.

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They invested heavily in change management and education while implementing co-pilot and

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it has become a success story, especially because of that.

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Because we went together with the business, we defined some use cases, we looked into the

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pain points, we looked at how co-pilot really came help and really have some business impact

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and we did really trainings for two, three months.

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I think when organizations are aware that they have to invest in change management, then

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the chances are a lot higher that you have a good option of AI, especially co-pilot in

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your organization.

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Yeah.

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Before we drum deep dive and co-pilot, are we measuring productivity the wrong way, especially

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with the say, I change or how we can measure productivity today?

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Yeah.

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Well, there is the Microsoft answer and there is the practical answer.

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So the Microsoft answer is we have a lot of dashboard reporting insights from VIVA, especially

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Microsoft VIVA, where we can look into data which is very, very valuable and interpret this

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kind of data.

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Right.

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So this is something that is very, very valuable but I have to be honest here.

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I've never used it in my customer projects because the productivity gains are the return of

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investment on these kind of projects are not the hands.

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So we have to look into how much time did we save?

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How is the employee experience?

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We do it also here, Microsoft, the first with VIVA amplifier and with Microsoft forms.

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We do some surveys and also some services as well where we can go once a month or once

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all two, three months to the customer talk with the employees, with the business, look into

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their screens, look how they are adapting, how they are using AI and then report back to

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the management for continuous learning.

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So it's not just also here reporting and everything is not just a technological part but it's also

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the business part and the understanding of an organization.

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Yeah.

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I think as MVP you have this option to get all these beta, worms and so on but let's

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look a little bit to the start of co-pilot.

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What was your first reaction when you saw the first co-pilot in acting?

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Wow.

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And now for at the start, my co-pilot, we see a lot of people, yeah, I say not so happy from

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what Microsoft market thing do and what they get from co-pilot.

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And now it's a little bit different.

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What was for you, the moment we say co-pilot, this is so awesome, it's the best thing Microsoft

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published produced.

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I think me on the spot here, Mirko.

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You have to say, I was amazed since the beginning.

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I can understand the feeling, the subjective feeling of a lot of people that weren't happy

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in the beginning.

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Also today there are some things that I'm not happy about, co-pilot, it's not something

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that I can say as with this feature, it is the best that I've ever seen.

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I think in the beginning there was the topic of prompting, right?

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So we had to prompt detailed, long, structured to get good answers.

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And today it's more like which feature has the most fast-paced impact and the best use

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of my valuable time in the workplace.

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So it chipped a little bit, but for me, I was always amazed even in the beginning because

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when you had the right prompt in and when you had also good data quality, this is something

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that many organizations on the value at the moment, even today, in the beginning especially,

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but even today, if you have the big advantage of co-pilot is you have your own data, but

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it's also the biggest disadvantage.

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Because if your data is not well curated, co-pilot doesn't give you good answers.

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So we have the shit in, shit out principle, right?

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And with all other AI's that are out there, there is the worldwide web as a data source.

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And yeah, you don't have to look into the data quality.

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And here you have a topic more that you have to look into in order to gain good answers

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and good business impact of co-pilot, right?

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So this was, this is nothing else today that it was in 2023.

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It's the same topic.

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And for me, there is no point of turn or one no point that I say, wow, now it's this, wow,

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especially what's really important.

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I want to stress that out here when I've got opportunity, folks, we are talking about

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the technology that is free or four years old.

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Not even the providers know what they're doing and what they're AI do does.

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So please, let's have some patience.

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We are in a fast pace environment.

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We are in a innovating scale that has never been there, I would say, or never in this pace.

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So let's keep that in mind.

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We can't have the perfect solution of the three, four years.

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Keep that in mind.

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It's still young.

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We are still in the childish face.

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But we are slowly growing into teenagers with this kind of technology, I would say.

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When we use co-pilot and you say shit, engine out.

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So we can also cut off all external, like being, I think most use being, but all external sources.

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Can it help to understand the shit we produce in their own company?

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And can we, or have we something to do like clean up or structure the data another way?

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I know I'm the final, final, final for version 7, C point, final guy.

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Is there something we have to do to get it better?

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I don't know.

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User experience.

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User experience.

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Yeah, there is, of course.

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And also here, we are talking about the technical perspective and the organizational perspective.

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On the one hand, yes, you should clean up if there is something to clean up.

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We have to look into data quality and data security both equally.

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But this is the technical part, right?

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But the organizational part is the data culture.

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So if you do a major cleanup, how do you make sure that in six months or 12 months, you

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don't end up having a chaos again?

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So you have to implement a good data culture and implement or make the employees understand

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the value of data.

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And of course, should implement some, yes, some recurring quality, quality gates or quality

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controls of data, which can be also helped with, for example, with SharePoint Advanced

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Management, where we have life cycle management policies to automate these kind of tasks.

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But I don't think it's just done with clean up or with labels or with new structure.

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It has to do with the data culture and the value of data inside an organization.

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That is really interesting because I think a lot of companies say, oh, we wrote our co-pilot,

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it's IT technical.

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And then, okay, they can use, I don't know, Pew, View and so on and all this.

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But you say, from your perspective, it's more leadership in charge or it's more the employee

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itself or it's IT topic.

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It's both.

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It's both.

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And again, here we are talking about change management, right?

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Change management in one of the key aspects of change management is a role concept or a role

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model. So who is responsible for what, which role has, which kind of tasks?

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And this can be, this can be implemented with, with a co-pilot project, this can be implemented

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in a data security project, this can be implemented in a project where we are migrating from, from

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a local file server to SharePoint.

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So we have also look, always have to look into the roles, not only during the project,

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but especially after the project in the maintenance of this new thing that we have done or implemented.

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So yeah, it's not, I wouldn't say it's more, I think it's both.

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You do need this organizational awareness, you need these roles, but you also need the

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technical policies, settings, etc. that you can do within Microsoft 365 environment.

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Because if you do only the technical part and you don't have the business part, it doesn't

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work, but if you don't have only the business part and you don't have the technical part that

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backs it up, it doesn't work as well.

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So it's both equally important, I would say.

230
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Awesome.

231
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I think a little bit about the people and I have often the feeling we are both in IT, so

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we all like this new stuff, but there are, I don't know, people in HR or something.

233
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And they are a little bit overwhelming with all this new co-pilot updates.

234
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We can look on these and we see all this nice thoughts.

235
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What should we do to, yeah?

236
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Take these stakeholders into the system that they feel good and have this, yeah, they

237
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have a practical use because I think, yeah, we can build up a new, I don't know, on AR

238
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FOG, we can build crazy stuff, but I think for starters, how we can put them into the ecosystem

239
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that they like it and feel well with it, but what would you think?

240
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Are you talking from one person's perspective or from an organizational perspective?

241
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:17,480
Oh, I find both interesting about what can companies or organizations do, okay.

242
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So talking about the companies, it's, now I have, on one part, I have, the sales perspective

243
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of myself, I can't really switch at all with my history.

244
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So what I offer my customers is that there, for many years, there have been some kind of

245
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evergreen services.

246
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I don't know if you know of them.

247
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These are kind of services that you get, that your IT provider does monthly analysis

248
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about the new features that have come up and does a report with the priorities, what is

249
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high priority, what has to be done, what is middle priority, what is low priority, how much

250
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,560
is the impact on your end users, how much is the impact on your infrastructure, et cetera,

251
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:14,480
and work together with the organization to keep track, right?

252
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:19,720
So this is one perspective with your IT provider, not many IT providers, offer these kind

253
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of evergreen services because it is, yeah, a huge, a huge amount of work to do, of course.

254
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,480
You can do this kind of a work also internally as an organization.

255
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,360
So I can tell how I do it, right?

256
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:39,800
So me as an MVP, I am faced with the same challenge.

257
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And for me, I take every Friday afternoon on every weekend, it depends.

258
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I take two hours of my day.

259
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I block it in my calendar or Friday afternoon.

260
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And in these two hours, I go through the message center and admin center.

261
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,640
I go through the block articles of the tech community in Microsoft.

262
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I also have a little automation, of course, with GEN-AI, that helps me find the relevant

263
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stuff.

264
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:11,480
Then I prepare it in some kind of, yeah, documents.

265
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:18,280
So with me, in my case, it's my weekly M365 updates that are post or linked in, so I have

266
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a PowerPoint presentation with photographs and things like that for an organization.

267
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It could be like a block article or an article in a Viva Engage community or in a Teams channel

268
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:39,200
where they can't of, yeah, informed there and uses about the updates.

269
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Yeah, and if you are looking for personal advice, I would advise you to follow the MDPs that

270
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are here out in the world because all of them are doing a really, really great job in keeping

271
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the community updated and keeping the community on track.

272
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Go to events, online conferences.

273
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If you have the time and if your employer also supports it and, yeah, use this kind of leverage

274
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:22,040
that we offer, or we MDPs offer the community to stay on track and stay updated.

275
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This is awesome.

276
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And also we can say you do a podcast over 9,000 co-pilot.

277
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The people can't figure it out.

278
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:40,640
And I see also you are a Dragon Ball Z fan.

279
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One big time.

280
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,840
If you coach through the one Dragon Ball Z character to leave the future of workplaces with

281
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,920
the eye, who will that be and why?

282
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,520
Ooh, this is the question from the next podcast.

283
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,680
I have to tell Leo this question.

284
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,960
Ooh, this is a good one.

285
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,360
Oh, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, now you've got me.

286
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:11,680
Let me think about that for a second.

287
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,680
I think that the best answer would be Goku because he's an inspiring person.

288
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People follow him.

289
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,360
He can turn the biggest critics into biggest villains.

290
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:28,440
So has to be Goku, right?

291
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,440
Yeah.

292
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:30,440
Good.

293
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:40,000
Well, when we talk about leadership of people who follow, what did you think about this?

294
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,640
Yeah, I think Microsoft called it champions.

295
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:54,440
What did you think about this strategy to make one person, the lead and companies to teach

296
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:59,760
people co-pilot and value?

297
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,800
Well, it depends.

298
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:10,520
So what I found in my experience is really valuable is some kind of ambassadors, right?

299
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:20,280
So you have to build a network internally of people that are positively minded towards

300
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,920
AI or towards any change project that you have in mind in an organization.

301
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,320
It doesn't just apply to AI, of course.

302
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:38,280
And it depends about the culture of an organization if these kind of people then can take tasks

303
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:50,200
of learning of guiding, of giving lectures, giving workshops to their own employers

304
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,680
or employees or colleagues.

305
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,280
It really depends.

306
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,200
I don't think it's someone size fits all kind of thing.

307
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:04,040
I think the ambassador role as champions or as to say is better.

308
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:10,120
Also you can use this kind of network for some kind of support organization.

309
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:16,520
So if anyone has questions, rather than opening an IT ticket every time or every single

310
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:22,840
little thing, they can use these ambassadors or these networks or these champions, how

311
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:28,760
much of calls them to get some help.

312
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,000
Because what's the main challenge?

313
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,840
The main challenge is always time, right?

314
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:43,040
Do these business users have time to guide the other employees, to give workshops, to

315
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,160
educate internally?

316
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,320
Does the culture also fits in?

317
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:54,160
Because if there is high political stakes in an organization, I don't think that would

318
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,160
work.

319
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,160
So it really depends.

320
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:04,560
Okay, then we can say technology is the easy part for the most organizations.

321
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:13,960
But when we talk about change management or a company culture, why do leadership struggle

322
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:20,560
with AI adoption in this part?

323
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,800
Because they want too much to fast.

324
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,680
That's the problem I saw it in many, many cases, internally and externally.

325
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,600
Like, yeah, I've seen Chachipik here.

326
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,600
I've seen Copilot.

327
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,000
I want to have it right now.

328
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,000
Let's do it.

329
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,000
Right?

330
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:42,320
So we dive in no preparation, no sense of what's possible or where are the limitations

331
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,320
especially, right?

332
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:51,080
Because the expectations are just shooting up and most of the time as a consultant, I have

333
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,560
to do a lot of expectation management around the AI.

334
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,000
So I think that's the main challenge.

335
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:09,560
If leaders are willing to see AI as a long-term investment with a lot of homework before

336
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:14,960
that has to be done, then you can leverage AI adoption.

337
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:20,680
And you have to have also a strategy, not per se, AI strategy, right?

338
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,800
That's of course, that's part of it.

339
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:32,440
But I think AI has to be a part or a crucial part in your business strategy.

340
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:38,320
And that's mostly not the case.

341
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,000
Your title at Red IT is Team Leader Productivity.

342
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:55,440
So I can understand the wrong, but before we productivity, like the marketing from all

343
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:02,560
this AI companies, we have take a time to adapt and learn.

344
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,120
And then we start a productivity.

345
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:14,240
And this is what the company is too wrong or is it like, no, you can, at the moment we

346
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,840
roll out, copilot, we can productivity.

347
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,080
We can make, we can also productivity here.

348
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:30,080
But, you know, regarding the title, productivity is the tool set of the Microsoft environments,

349
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,960
how you can enhance your productivity.

350
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:39,360
So we do everything around Power Platform, we do Teams, SharePoint, Collaboration, and of

351
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,200
course, copilot and copilot studio.

352
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,960
So we do everything that has some kind of direct impact on your productivity in the workplace.

353
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,200
So that's to clear that up.

354
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,440
In the end, the question is, what is productivity?

355
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,440
Right?

356
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:02,160
So I'm faced with customer that say, yeah, maybe I gain with this workflow, I gain 20 minutes,

357
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:07,480
but in these 20 minutes, my employee goes drinking a coffee.

358
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:08,480
Right?

359
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:14,000
So I'm faced with this kind of questions, I think not only me, but a lot of other consults

360
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,520
as well.

361
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,640
Yes.

362
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:25,760
Productivity is always, yeah, it's always a question how you see your culture, how you see,

363
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:35,720
how work has to be done, what role an employee has to employ the role to execute, has it

364
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:42,320
a role or she the role to observe, has he or she the role to build something that becomes

365
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,320
more productive.

366
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,000
So it's too big of a word to sum it down.

367
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,000
Okay.

368
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,600
Okay, then let me refer.

369
00:31:51,600 --> 00:32:00,280
I'm sorry if you were looking for another answer here.

370
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,960
Only look into this productivity tools and we have a lot of change.

371
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:12,680
I think COVID was the best thing we have this hybrid workspace or home office or I don't

372
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,480
know how we call it.

373
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:25,840
I have changed from this hybrid and modern work teams, adaption, I think a lot of company

374
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,960
have done this.

375
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:33,640
What is the biggest thing, what copies change here?

376
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:38,760
Good question.

377
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:47,560
I think the human touch and the human interactions and the human connections are being valued

378
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,320
more nowadays, especially with AI.

379
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:58,520
It was, there was a time in I think 2022, 2023 where companies tried to come back to the

380
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:07,640
office and people were abelling and now with AI people see, hey, everything is going so

381
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,400
fast, they can do everything technologically.

382
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,120
I kind of missed the human connection.

383
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:25,040
So it has become, in my opinion, it has become more valuable for people around the world,

384
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:31,800
I would say, especially in my or in our area that we are living in, Europe.

385
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:38,280
So it is a different kind of value that it has, that it had like three, four years ago.

386
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:46,440
And we have, I don't know, we have this, I think, it is like a bus word that came every

387
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,360
two or three years, it's called empowerment.

388
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:56,080
What do those empowerment for you actually mean?

389
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:04,200
Well, I mean, I mean, I leadership position myself and I have a clear idea on what that

390
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,920
means and I highly connect that with empowerment, right?

391
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:19,640
So I can say it from my perspective, my job as a leader is to create an environment where

392
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:28,560
my colleagues, my subordinates as to say, are being intrinsic, motivated to love to come to

393
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:29,560
work.

394
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:35,480
They want to work, when they wake up in the morning, they are happy to come to work.

395
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:46,560
Also my job as a leader is that I contribute to their personal and, and then on the personal,

396
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:52,840
you cannot know the education, but development, their personal development, they're also,

397
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,120
what's the word in English?

398
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,880
Fochlich, what's the word in English?

399
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:05,480
I don't know, I don't speak the French, so, fachlich, fachlich.

400
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,280
Ah, okay.

401
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:12,320
It's mean, what's the meaning in English?

402
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:18,240
So the personal development and also their, the professional, professional, yeah, you

403
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:25,920
can say professional development, so they're a contribute to that and that's that's empowerment

404
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:26,920
for me, right?

405
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:35,120
So for me, it's so beautiful to see how, how my colleagues are evolving, how they are developing,

406
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:41,280
how they are getting better, how they are growing personally and professionally and this

407
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,240
has something to do with empowerment, so my job is to empower them and to set the environment

408
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:48,440
that they can be empowered.

409
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,600
This is my perspective.

410
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:56,240
Can you tell a little bit from the practice, how you empowered people?

411
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:59,000
Or, I don't want to brag.

412
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:05,440
I think my colleagues finished it on, so that, but I can tell you my, my methods.

413
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:14,280
So for example, one of the first things we did is creating values for our team, so what

414
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:19,760
do we stand for in which direction are we having and can everybody identify with that?

415
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:25,440
And, and this, this kind of developed over the years and, yeah, for me, it's always like

416
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:32,760
that I set the stage as, as a leader and decider, of course, in the end, I set the stage or,

417
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:40,840
the frame, let's say the frame, and I want that they contribute and they can self, self

418
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:48,120
determine what they want, what they need inside this kind of frame, right?

419
00:36:48,120 --> 00:37:00,000
So this, this is one topologically method that I always run into, so the stage and the frame

420
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:06,280
is being set strategically from from my superior or from the company, of course, or from

421
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:07,280
IDIGENDS.

422
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:20,040
But, but for me, the self contribution or the self findings of these kind of values, decisions,

423
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,800
these have to come from, from the employees.

424
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,280
So it's, it's, it's together, going together in the MacPing.

425
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:37,160
And then it's the classical, the leader, a lot, have the, what, the vibe, it's, it's, it's,

426
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,240
it's, it's, it's, it's interesting.

427
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:44,520
I had, I had lost year in the end of last year, I had all the yearly, yearly talks, right?

428
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:51,560
As you have, as, as, as a, as a boss, as to say, and, and two of my colleagues just said,

429
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,600
"Hey, you're, you're not, you're not a boss, you're a leader.

430
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:55,600
We follow you.

431
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,720
You are someone to be followed and this is, this is some, some very beautiful compliment

432
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:07,160
and this is exactly what I'm able to, or, or having, or being a person that inspires or,

433
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,480
or that helps people be inspired."

434
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,120
And that's how I try to empower, right?

435
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,120
So it's, it's always a together.

436
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,520
And yeah, if the values don't align, there is also this kind of possibility.

437
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:29,960
It's all right, but I try to, to help these kind of people as well, as good as I can.

438
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:35,240
You're more, you are the leader and I say, I'm more the employee.

439
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:42,040
And I will talk about the topic, what I think it's, whoa, it's, it's, it's, for me, and the

440
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,920
most companies, it's, it's the biggest challenge.

441
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,360
It's communication.

442
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:58,280
How can we have a good communication, especially in times of AI transformation, but, but also

443
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:04,800
what's your tip, leader or what have I to do as an employee to, to, that we find good

444
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:10,560
communication in the company, what did you think?

445
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:16,560
Inside the company as, as a whole or in the relationship between leader and employee?

446
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,560
A relationship, a relationship.

447
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,560
Okay.

448
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:28,080
First of all, this is my job to create that environment that you can communicate openly with

449
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:29,080
me, right?

450
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,600
So that's, that's what I meant with, that's how I see leadership.

451
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,640
And I do it while being authentic, right?

452
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:44,280
So I, I talk bullshit, I give some, some, not so formal words.

453
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:50,200
I, I show them that, that I'm hurt as well or that I can be hurt.

454
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:57,880
I show them that I'm when something's not going well, that, that I'm not happy about it.

455
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:03,320
But not, not in terms of you, where I'm not happy about when you don't, something wrong,

456
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,080
that's, that's a different kind of topic.

457
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,520
But in, in, in terms of how, how the daily work is going, right?

458
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,720
The business as usual stuff.

459
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:17,880
Being authentic and, and showing compassion as well.

460
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:24,960
So these are the two key elements in my communication in order to do my job, to give you the space

461
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:30,400
and give you the trust in me that you can be open to me and communicate to everything

462
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,400
that you want.

463
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:38,360
Methodically, methodically, we have our daily standups.

464
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,680
We have our weekly meeting that goes an hour and I have with every employee I have.

465
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:51,120
All three weeks, one to one conversation that's always in person.

466
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:57,000
Yeah, so that's, that's it because we have flexible work days as well.

467
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:03,320
We, we work hybrid that everybody is in the office, but for example, on the, on the weekly

468
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:08,160
team meeting, this is a team day everybody is in, in the office.

469
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,080
And yeah, we do some stuff together.

470
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:15,960
So this is also setting the environment for, for having this kind of open communication

471
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,440
with each other.

472
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:27,400
I think a little bit about communication and knowledge management and so on.

473
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,880
And as leader, you often have more information.

474
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:40,000
You have this, I don't know, you are the commander in chief of the information.

475
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:47,920
The thing is it will change that this change, this not change management, but this knowledge

476
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:55,720
management that all people get the same information or is it good that the leadership have their

477
00:41:55,720 --> 00:42:02,920
own, I don't know, bubble of information.

478
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,640
It depends how sensitive the information is, right?

479
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:11,240
So you have that the leaders have different kind of tasks, of course, as the employees.

480
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:16,560
So what kind of value do the employees have if the leader shared their tasks with them,

481
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,840
for example?

482
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:25,760
Also here you have, you have the political kind of, this is a political, political kind of

483
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,320
question that you ask because even here, how's the culture, right?

484
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,760
Does, does the management want?

485
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:39,160
Let's take the yearly or the annual numbers, for example, right?

486
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:46,880
How much, how many times did you see that the annual numbers on how much profit we did,

487
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:52,040
how the EBTI and etc has been shared with the employees, not many times, right?

488
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,520
Yeah, most time we get it from the newspapers.

489
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:01,240
Even newspapers, but if you are in an SMU, you don't have it publicly, right?

490
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:03,520
So that's one part.

491
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:09,640
So it's always, it's a sensitive kind of topic, I would say.

492
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,480
For me, it has to do with the culture and the organizational setup.

493
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:22,480
If you are bragging about that, you are agile and think you don't have superiors and subordinates

494
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:29,920
because you are a modern organization and you keep information back, then you are executing

495
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,600
yourself, right?

496
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:39,180
But if you have the classical organizational matrix and things like that, yeah, it really

497
00:43:39,180 --> 00:43:45,000
depends how much communication the information has to go down and is relevant for employees

498
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,000
and how sensitive this kind of information is because as we know, sensitive information

499
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:56,280
gets leaked very, very fast, especially in today's technological possibilities.

500
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:04,040
So yeah, it's a question that we can dive into another half an hour, but it's not easy

501
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,440
to answer.

502
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:17,360
But we have all, I think all these Microsoft tools, one note, co-pilot pages, loop, and

503
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:23,120
so on, everywhere we have information.

504
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:35,400
So, how can we help, and produce, there are not so safety with the co-pilot, AI world?

505
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:40,800
How can we help them to work better with AI or co-pilot?

506
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:50,240
And yeah, also how we can take the fears away, they have to work with co-pilot.

507
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:57,000
Training, training, first part, second part, showing it to them.

508
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:03,320
So in terms of you show them that you do it and they will follow you, okay?

509
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:08,400
Because if you say you have to do it, you have to do it, don't do it yourself as a leader,

510
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:13,120
for example, who believes you, right?

511
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:20,360
So it's that part, of course, admin, the other hand, it's the communication, right?

512
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:26,680
So we have to be open about it and say, hey, what's your fear?

513
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,360
What do you need that you have something to gain from it, right?

514
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:34,280
So one critical question, change management is always for the employee, what's in it for

515
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,280
you?

516
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:42,080
And maybe you have to motivate the employee to give him the answer to exactly that question.

517
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:49,480
Yeah, I think it is really hard, because it's so much, and I think also Microsoft, a little bit

518
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,920
overviling that people with information and benchmarks are product.

519
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:54,920
Yeah, absolutely.

520
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:55,920
Yeah, that's true.

521
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:03,480
Yeah, there are some old products give new name and some on, I'm also a little bit overviving,

522
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,040
so I'm a, I found a guy, I'm happy.

523
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:14,800
And then I look co-pilot in every week, that comes co-pilot, co-pilot work, co-pilot IQ,

524
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,040
co-pilot skills.

525
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:22,600
I don't know, it's really, really hard.

526
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:34,720
But what can you give people not to burn out with this fast moving tech, bad virtual world?

527
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:37,080
I can say what I'm doing.

528
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:45,680
I'm totally focusing on co-pilot, co-pilot studio, more or less blending out everything else

529
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,160
that's, that happens in the EAI world, of course, I read about the newest GPT model, or I read

530
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:55,160
about when, when OpenAI speaks suit for something.

531
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,800
But I am, I'm finding my niche, that's my, that's my strategy.

532
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:05,880
I'm finding my niche and I want to specialize in this kind of niche and everything that comes

533
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:11,640
with it, or that has some impact, right, because before, for example, take a topic, right,

534
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,560
beforehand I had nothing to do with Claude or I'm topic because I just blended it out.

535
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:23,760
And now it's here in co-pilot or in the co-pilot environments that I have to, to, to, inform

536
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,120
myself because it's part of my niche, right?

537
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,360
So that's what I'm doing.

538
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:36,960
That's my suggestion also, find your niche and, and the kind of load that you can handle

539
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,600
because the load is massive.

540
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:46,120
Or if you don't want to find your niche, be a generalist, but don't go too deep.

541
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:47,120
Yeah.

542
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,920
Oh, this is really interesting questions.

543
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,920
I have discussed it sometimes.

544
00:47:53,920 --> 00:48:02,800
But if you think is specializing the better career path or it's having an overview, the

545
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:09,320
best career part for I think you will take professionals, young professionals.

546
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:15,960
That's, that's a great question that I'm all asking myself as well, especially in, in

547
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:21,200
the, in the view of do I want to develop more technically or more from the business side,

548
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:22,200
right?

549
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,280
And then the business consultants needed in the future or, or are more AI engineers needed

550
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,280
in the future.

551
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:35,320
That's, that's also similar question, right?

552
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:43,080
I think, I think, especially, is better because in the end you have organizations that have

553
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,400
some kind of technology stack.

554
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,720
And they are not looking for, they're all, they will always be generalists that are

555
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:54,680
being needed, right?

556
00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:03,320
But I think for the opportunities that you have or, or having also a network, it's better

557
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,280
to be specialized in being in a bubble.

558
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,920
It's my personal opinion.

559
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:15,200
When you think about co-pilotists, there are one feature people, or the, the most you

560
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:23,640
do a lot, or all people should use, co-pilot and PowerPoint.

561
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:24,640
Okay.

562
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:25,640
Okay.

563
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:34,280
And then you, the new, agent mode, or it's not called agent mode anymore, it's now, edit

564
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:39,560
in co-pilot that this is fantastic.

565
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:48,760
And how, what, what did you drink when you stay, try to stay in the, in the, in the loop for

566
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:55,800
all those new staff, you are the another drink tube or G or, with your, with your, fill

567
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:06,720
in, a background coffee. I think I have more angie than, that, that I would need something

568
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:07,720
to drink.

569
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:08,720
No.

570
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:15,320
Um, nothing, water.

571
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:16,320
Water.

572
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:17,320
Yeah, okay.

573
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,360
This is also acceptable.

574
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:24,360
No, because, because let's see next week is, or this week tomorrow, it begins, right?

575
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:34,520
It starts in the, in the evening here in Europe.

576
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,920
And, yeah, if I drink coffee or an urge to drink, I can't sleep at night.

577
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,760
I don't want to sleep, even if it's 12 or 1 o'clock, right?

578
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,000
So, yeah.

579
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:49,440
Yeah, we, we, we, we, we, even this is also a good topic.

580
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:57,680
So, you don't must be stressed because I do the M365 content, but what's the best event,

581
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,520
you say, that's where I have the people go.

582
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,520
Oh, my God.

583
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,680
You're putting your spot here.

584
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:15,520
Um, I can, I can answer highly political.

585
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:16,520
Okay.

586
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:17,520
Okay.

587
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,640
Then we got, we got those, go ahead, start the question.

588
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:21,640
Oh, it's okay.

589
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:22,640
It's okay.

590
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,440
I think, I think there are, right?

591
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:25,760
So, so I'm a little bit biased.

592
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:26,760
Okay.

593
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:34,080
So, we have some, some events that, that I organized, of course, at Microsoft once a year,

594
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:35,240
which was a blast.

595
00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:43,840
Um, I had a very good time twice now in mindset, M365 summit, um, now in June in, in, in, in

596
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:49,040
a month, it's, um, I'm going the first time to Salzburg today in Finty, F365, which should

597
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,440
be also very, very great event and very well organized.

598
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:54,440
It's my first time.

599
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,200
I'm so much looking forward to it.

600
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:02,160
Um, but, but also the ECS, I want to go to ESBC once.

601
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,800
Um, there are so many experts live in Switzerland this year in November.

602
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,400
I'm very, very much looking forward to.

603
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:16,840
Um, so there are a lot of conferences and events, um, in person, I'm talking about the

604
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:23,240
person's one, um, and yeah, for me personally, the highlight, of course, is the MVP summit,

605
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:27,560
each barch in, in Seattle, in Redmond, at the Microsoft headquarters.

606
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,080
This is, this is always a special experience.

607
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:37,600
So you, you are so doing, uh, event, so, so let, let's talk a little bit about this.

608
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:47,360
Uh, what, what event when, when it will start, who comes and, uh, all online, uh, or in person,

609
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,040
all the information now.

610
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:50,680
Ha, ha, ha, ha.

611
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:57,120
It depends, so online, it's, uh, it's, it's, uh, one day or a few days, uh, it's, it's, it's

612
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:02,720
totally, yeah, it's, it's, because it's online, people come and go, um, when, when, when they

613
00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:10,400
are able to, to make it, um, in person, it's, uh, often one day or three or four days, uh,

614
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:15,120
combined with a workshop in, in the, in the first day and then sessions, um, in, in the second

615
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:16,640
and third day.

616
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:23,920
Um, yeah, you have, uh, you have a lot of end customers that, um, that are coming to, to these

617
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:29,360
events because they want to learn and they want, uh, they want to gain, um, some, some knowledge

618
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:34,600
or some connections as well for their problems and challenges they're facing.

619
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:40,280
But of course, it's a little world, so a lot of, uh, yeah, sales, people, consultants, MVP,

620
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,080
uh, are, are always there.

621
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,920
It's, it's like a little family, I would say.

622
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:52,800
Yeah, it's, it's fair, uh, but they're, but also in, in your profile, uh, when they look

623
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:58,960
in the show notes, um, yeah, oh, we are learning a little bit out of time, so, uh, yeah.

624
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:04,040
Um, yeah, let me ask a final question.

625
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:05,040
Mm-hmm.

626
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,440
What do shaping the future of work present mean to you?

627
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,600
Sorry, repeat that question again, please.

628
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:20,040
Um, what do shaping the future of work presently mean to you?

629
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:33,960
I am so proud to, to, to be a person of the public who have so such a great community, such

630
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:41,280
great connections to be able to inspire, to have inspired people.

631
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:48,320
Uh, and, uh, yeah, it's, it's, um, it's a huge, huge privilege for me.

632
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:55,760
Um, to, to help contribute and, uh, build knowledge across the community, across the world

633
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,920
to shape the future of work.

634
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:58,920
Awesome.

635
00:54:58,920 --> 00:54:59,920
Thank you.

636
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:02,760
So it was a really great last word.

637
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:10,840
So thank you for being here and, uh, yeah, I hope it was, uh, and another event or, uh,

638
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,680
another podcast or livestream.

639
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,160
So yeah, thank you Fabio.

640
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:16,160
This was awesome.

641
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:17,160
Thank you.

642
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:18,360
We're having meat, have a good one.

643
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:28,360
[BLANK_AUDIO]